Hillary's blinds, formal claim

DullGreyGuy

Jimmygg7 said:

I got a visit from a Hillary's salesperson back in Dec-23. She took measurements from my windows, and we decided on an order. She mentioned 2 weeks if I'm not mistaken for the installation. She said she had an excellent fitter. Who came and measured a few days later.

When the time came for the fitting, the fitter was nowhere to be seen. I contacted the salesperson and she apologised and said that she was on Jury Service and that she would return my call asap. That didn't happen.

I kept calling her the next few days and then she texted me apologising saying that she got COVID after that. She said she would call me asap.

Then I texted her and said that my installation date was now due, and she asked whether this was a valid date. She said that she was looking after her grandson and was surprised that the fitter didn't come. Nothing happened.

I called her again a few days later asking whether the fitter had contacted me. He hadn't.

This kept going for a while until I contacted Hillary's. To cut the long story short, it got escalated, and they said that the blinds were in the fitter's lockers and that they'd have to call a special service to get access to the locker, and in the meantime, they'd try to find another fitter.

The whole thing took 3 months to finish. During this, I had paid a 50% downpayment and I never paid the other 50%, because their service and communication were appalling, and I had to take extra days off work to stay at home and wait for the fitter who never came.

Eventually, another fitter came and fitted them.

Now, they sent me a claim form for the other 50% + interest, that says:

....including 11.76 interest pursuant to the Claimants contractual Terms + Comditions Rate 4.5% pa from dates ....etc.

To start with, I don't have a contract from Hillary's in my inbox, just a receipt, and I don't remember signing one either.

Second, I am inclined to return the form and fill in the Defence and Counterclaim and state that I don't think I received the service I paid for, stating the facts. Would this be valid?

Thoughts?

Your lucky with the interest rate, if the T&Cs hadn't stated it then you would have been paying statutory interest which is 8%

It wouldn't be valid because you did receive the goods and services paid for just on a delayed basis. A delayed basis is no way justification for a 50% reduction; having new blinds is not a particularly time sensitive matter. What the hell would you counter claim for? You think there should be more than a 50% discount for it being a couple months late?

If you speak to the lawyers they may accept you to pay the original sum due to avoid action, they will need to take instruction from their client. If you do want your day in court then try and come up with a defence and return it

Jimmygg7

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Jimmygg7 said:

No worries. No, it was the price for everything, no breakdown.

Thanks OP

Where a contract includes installation and there is an issue with the install you can seek a remedy, ultimately to treat the contract at an end, but that is something you must action which I don't believe is possible now due to the contract having been performed (i.e blinds installed, presumably to a satisfactory standard).

Where goods are sold with a service but not itemised this is known as a transfer of goods (rather than a sale of goods), this does require the goods not to be central to the contract and it may very well be that the blinds are.

I believe where a contract is a transfer you can seek a price reduction for a breach (such as failed installation agreements) but I think IMHO £585 would be considered too great an amount given the circumstances. 

Jimmygg7 said:

Eventually, another fitter came and fitted them.

Now, they sent me a claim form for the other 50% + interest, that says:

What happened in-between these two events OP? Did they send demands for payment, did you have any discussion with them regarding pay a reduced amount?

Did you recieve a letter in the post informing you they would take this to court?

Other posters will know more on how to check but have they actually filed a claim or just sent you a filled in form as a sort of bluff?

They did actually. They phoned me to settle this once, and at the time I said I would. But then thinking about it a bit more, I decided that I didn't want to pay it for the aforementioned reasons.

Then they sent me a letter from a debt collection agency which I didn't reply to as I didn't have to.

Now we're at the formal claims form.

From what I can see, you too are suggesting some sort of settlement, that makes 3 of us now, and it seems to be the reasonable answer.

Would you think that a 25% discount sounds reasonable?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Jimmygg7 said:

Would you think that a 25% discount sounds reasonable?

It's very difficult, I would assume a company like Hillarys have a decent mark up over the cheap websites selling blinds so they may be more agreeable to a higher reduction.

Costs awarded in small claims are limited so it's likely to cost them to go down the small claims route which might benefit you as well.

(I wouldn't mention these things to them but) would go back and say the service was poor and you are willing to make a payment but feel £x would be more appropriate and see what they say really.

There is a CEO contact on the ceo email website for Hillarys which might result in a better response compared to dealing with general customer services.

Okell

Aylesbury_Duck said:

... Alternatively, if you're adamant you have no contract and you won't pay the remaining sum, have them wind the whole thing back, remove the blinds and refund you.  What you're not entitled to is to keep the fitted blinds and not pay for them.

But he has paid for them, hasn't he?

What he's done is withheld 50% of the payment because of the inordinate and unreasonable delay and incompetence on the part of Hilary's blinds and their employees and/or contractors.

What the OP was told would take 2 weeks took approx 6 times longer.

Whether 50% is a reasonable amount is a different matter...

(How will Hillary's blinds gain access to remove the blinds?)

Grumpy_chap said:

It seems as though the OP is dues to pay the original sum in full (£1,170).
If they pay that (or the remaining balance of that) promptly, the interest part may well be forgotten.

Why should the OP pay the full amount when Hillary's Blinds have repeatedly and unacceptably breached the contract?

Okell

Jimmygg7 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Jimmygg7 said:

No worries. No, it was the price for everything, no breakdown.

Thanks OP

Where a contract includes installation and there is an issue with the install you can seek a remedy, ultimately to treat the contract at an end, but that is something you must action which I don't believe is possible now due to the contract having been performed (i.e blinds installed, presumably to a satisfactory standard).

Where goods are sold with a service but not itemised this is known as a transfer of goods (rather than a sale of goods), this does require the goods not to be central to the contract and it may very well be that the blinds are.

I believe where a contract is a transfer you can seek a price reduction for a breach (such as failed installation agreements) but I think IMHO £585 would be considered too great an amount given the circumstances. 

Jimmygg7 said:

Eventually, another fitter came and fitted them.

Now, they sent me a claim form for the other 50% + interest, that says:

What happened in-between these two events OP? Did they send demands for payment, did you have any discussion with them regarding pay a reduced amount?

Did you recieve a letter in the post informing you they would take this to court?

Other posters will know more on how to check but have they actually filed a claim or just sent you a filled in form as a sort of bluff?

They did actually. They phoned me to settle this once, and at the time I said I would. But then thinking about it a bit more, I decided that I didn't want to pay it for the aforementioned reasons...

As per my previous post I was on your side until you said this ^^^.

Why did you agree to settle, but then renege on it?

Seems disingenuous and unreasonable.

Don't agree to something and then backtrack.  You should have stuck to the argumant that they had delayed unreasonably.

Jimmygg7

Okell said:

Jimmygg7 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Jimmygg7 said:

No worries. No, it was the price for everything, no breakdown.

Thanks OP

Where a contract includes installation and there is an issue with the install you can seek a remedy, ultimately to treat the contract at an end, but that is something you must action which I don't believe is possible now due to the contract having been performed (i.e blinds installed, presumably to a satisfactory standard).

Where goods are sold with a service but not itemised this is known as a transfer of goods (rather than a sale of goods), this does require the goods not to be central to the contract and it may very well be that the blinds are.

I believe where a contract is a transfer you can seek a price reduction for a breach (such as failed installation agreements) but I think IMHO £585 would be considered too great an amount given the circumstances. 

Jimmygg7 said:

Eventually, another fitter came and fitted them.

Now, they sent me a claim form for the other 50% + interest, that says:

What happened in-between these two events OP? Did they send demands for payment, did you have any discussion with them regarding pay a reduced amount?

Did you recieve a letter in the post informing you they would take this to court?

Other posters will know more on how to check but have they actually filed a claim or just sent you a filled in form as a sort of bluff?

They did actually. They phoned me to settle this once, and at the time I said I would. But then thinking about it a bit more, I decided that I didn't want to pay it for the aforementioned reasons...

As per my previous post I was on your side until you said this ^^^.

Why did you agree to settle, but then renege on it?

Seems disingenuous and unreasonable.

Don't agree to something and then backtrack.  You should have stuck to the argumant that they had delayed unreasonably.

I understand your perspective. I initially agreed to settle, but on reflection, I decided it wasn’t the right call. 

Everyone has the right to reassess and make choices that align with their stance and circumstances. That doesn't make them disingenuous and unreasonable.

TheSpectator

Jimmygg7 said:

Okell said:

Jimmygg7 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Jimmygg7 said:

No worries. No, it was the price for everything, no breakdown.

Thanks OP

Where a contract includes installation and there is an issue with the install you can seek a remedy, ultimately to treat the contract at an end, but that is something you must action which I don't believe is possible now due to the contract having been performed (i.e blinds installed, presumably to a satisfactory standard).

Where goods are sold with a service but not itemised this is known as a transfer of goods (rather than a sale of goods), this does require the goods not to be central to the contract and it may very well be that the blinds are.

I believe where a contract is a transfer you can seek a price reduction for a breach (such as failed installation agreements) but I think IMHO £585 would be considered too great an amount given the circumstances. 

Jimmygg7 said:

Eventually, another fitter came and fitted them.

Now, they sent me a claim form for the other 50% + interest, that says:

What happened in-between these two events OP? Did they send demands for payment, did you have any discussion with them regarding pay a reduced amount?

Did you recieve a letter in the post informing you they would take this to court?

Other posters will know more on how to check but have they actually filed a claim or just sent you a filled in form as a sort of bluff?

They did actually. They phoned me to settle this once, and at the time I said I would. But then thinking about it a bit more, I decided that I didn't want to pay it for the aforementioned reasons...

As per my previous post I was on your side until you said this ^^^.

Why did you agree to settle, but then renege on it?

Seems disingenuous and unreasonable.

Don't agree to something and then backtrack.  You should have stuck to the argumant that they had delayed unreasonably.

I understand your perspective. I initially agreed to settle, but on reflection, I decided it wasn’t the right call. 

Everyone has the right to reassess and make choices that align with their stance and circumstances. That doesn't make them disingenuous and unreasonable.

It will not help them if it ever gets to court though.

DullGreyGuy

Jimmygg7 said:

Would you think that a 25% discount sounds reasonable?

How many blinds did you have fitted? Or how long did it take them to do the job?

I dont think 25% sounds anything like reasonable as the majority of the fee is for the blinds that will last years and you have no complaint about the blinds themselves. If you assume Hillaries over charge and its £50/hr for fitting then you may have an argument for 50% of the fitting charge but nothing for the blinds itself. 

Jimmygg7

DullGreyGuy said:

Jimmygg7 said:

Would you think that a 25% discount sounds reasonable?

How many blinds did you have fitted? Or how long did it take them to do the job?

I dont think 25% sounds anything like reasonable as the majority of the fee is for the blinds that will last years and you have no complaint about the blinds themselves. If you assume Hillaries over charge and its £50/hr for fitting then you may have an argument for 50% of the fitting charge but nothing for the blinds itself. 

The payment was for the service as a whole, plus it cost me personally days off work, we could calculate that. We could also add the number of hours that I spent chasing them.

Took them around 2-3 hours to fit them if I remember correctly.

Grumpy_chap

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

It's very difficult, I would assume a company like Hillarys have a decent mark up over the cheap websites selling blinds so they may be more agreeable to a higher reduction.

Hillary's Blinds are owned by Hunter Douglas.
Their main brands in the UK are
 - Luxaflex = premium
 - Hillary's = mid-market
 - Blinds to Go = budget