Help Mother in Care Home

sloughflint

EdInvestor wrote: »

The Dikler really needs to go and get himself some competent financial advice,

Absolutely. The tenancy status is key to all this.This thread is merely a useful starting point.

having failed to set up the family's affair properly in the first place.Blundering around in the way he proposes

Have I interpreted your post correctly? You seem to be somewhat negative towards the OP.Can we be sure that he received decent advice when the mortgage was set up to be able to comment in this fashion?
All the house buying process can be hard to understand. I remember not being sure about JT/TIC when I first bought with OH and in hindsight it certainly wasn't well explained to me. I've learnt much more in subsequent years.

sloughflint

Assuming it is JT ( that's how it seems), would OP be able to sever the tenancy now that the joint tenant has dementia. Conflict of interest under POA?

poppy10_2

Your mum should have a social services Care Manager who will be the most knowledgeable person to ask about the financial situation with respect to Power of Attorney etc. Age Concern are also very good.

sloughflint

There are several things going on here:
1. What happens to house/OP's family if OP dies ?
2. Is Mum still financially/legally committed to pay her share of mortgage
3. Can OP afford to pay the mortgage if that is the morally correct thing to do to ensure most decent care home?

poppy10, my experience of SSCM has been very poor. I wouldn't rely solely on whatever information they can give.1 and 2 seem more like legal issues.

webtalk

Don't assume Care Managers give unbiased advice - many don't.

Also don't assume they know and understand all the rules and their nuances either.

Some are absolutely brilliant and definitely have their clients best interests in mind. Others are plain mediocre. And others - well ...

Debt_Free_Chick

The_Dikler wrote: »

Could anyone advise me on following. My mother has Dementia and has been taken into a care home. My Mother and myself have a joint morgage on the home we lived at. There is still 10 years payments due. Whilst the local authority have confirmed that whislt I still live at the property they cannot sell the property I would like to know my rights being a joint owner. My mother has savings of £14000, she receives a state pension and also a small pension. Therefore can I claim 50% morgage payments despite she is in a care home, can I claim 50% of any house repairs? Or there any other utility bills that I can claim on? It maybe sounds harsh but I look at it as if anything happened to me then the home would be sold for care home fees and no other benefit to my other family members etc.

You say the mortgage is in joint names. How the repayments are split are a "private" matter between you and your mother. The lender doesn't care, so long as the total repayments are made. If the mortgage falls into arrears, the lender will chase both of you for the shortfall as you are "jointly and severally liable". If, for example, there were four months arrears and you paid half of that, the lender wouldn't take it that the balance owed is to be paid by your mum. They don't care who pays it and will chase you both for the amount owed.

So .... it's down to you and mum to sort out. For the purpose of appearing not to "milk the system" as far as the LA are concerned, I would have thought you could not charge mum more than 50% of the repayments. In particular, if she has always paid half the repayments, then simply continue with that arrangement for so long as her finances permit.

The point that is being made about mother no longer having any benefit/enjoyment from the property - then these are valid. But it's still a private matter. If you were in dispute with your mum and she refused to pay anything, then it's possible that a Court would agree with her. But then separately, she has the same responsibility for payment of the mortgage as you do.

I think you should carry on doing what you were doing befor, purely to ensure that the repayments are made. It's in no-ones interests for the property to be repossessed, if the mortgage isn't paid.

Similarly, the costs of maintenance and repairs are a private matter. But again, continue with the previous arrangement. This way, you cannot be accused of trying to "rip off" the LA by "spending" your mother's savings. Presumably, she has been paying in the past from her savings, so if this continues, she ends up in the same financial position as she would have been, if she had continued to live in the property.

If the LA want to challenge that (and I very much doubt that they would) then let them do that and you can deal with that situation if and when it ever arises.

HTH

silvercar

This poor woman could not have known that she was going to develop dementia, and it must have seemed like a good idea at the time, to take on a mortgage jointly with her son. The mortgage, we're told, still has 10 years to run, and we don't know how long ago it was started. It's not uncommon for things to change over the course of this period of time, but at the time it was a good option as a home for herself and son. The next generation really don't come into the equation - the main needs are those of the 2 mortgage holders. Mother has recently moved out, is living somewhere else - in this case a care home - but son still wants her to pay her original half of the mortgage and some of the bills. How can she possibly be expected to do this?

This poor woman entered into a financial commitment to pay the mortgage for the next 10 years. Now of course she didn't know she would become incapacitated, but the point is that she made this financial commitment and actually has the funds (savings / pension etc) to honour that commitment.

At the time she took out the mortgage, it would have been explained that mortgage was for X years and if this time extended beyond retirement age the payments would still have to be met.

People are often advised to ensure that their mortgages end before retirement, so if the mortgage was correctly sold to the "poor woman" she would have been made aware of the long term commitment.

sloughflint

So that's looking a little more promising then but the worry is still if OP died and the tenancy was joint.
I would hope the LA couldn't kick OP's OH and kids out of the family home but potentially could place a charge against 100% of the property.
What a horrible situation to be in. Surely this scenario should have been discussed with OP and his mother when the mortgage was sold.

margaretclare

When the mortgage was sold - I doubt if any mortgage provider/seller would take into account the scenario of mother developing dementia.

There has so far been no mention of 'kids' being in the family home, only that they exist. If the OP is over 65 he can't be 'kicked out' of the family home.

Margaret

sloughflint

I've still been pondering about this awful situation and the implications of the tenancy status. Unfortunately I don't know the answer.
If it's JT and OP dies first, it seems clear then that the house passes to his mum and LA can access at some point the full value of the house if care fees reach that level which has terrible implications for any other family members living in the property.

But what about the other way around regardless of whether the full mortgage payments can be met by OP?What happens if OP doesn't die before his mum and care fees are close to the full value of the property? Does the property pass in full to OP as survivor and therefore LA can't claim any of the value of the home? Or will OP be responsible for the full cost despite years of paying into the mortgage?

OP, I hope you get decent financial and legal advice soon. Perhaps you can post and warn others of potential problems. It must be relatively common for people within the same family joining forces like this.Good luck.