Does a radiator like this make sense?

Albermarle

twopenny said:

I have the radiator beside the door and it's a case of keeping the door closed if you want to warm the room. And keeping it closed as you go in and out then the room warms up.

Are the ceilings very high? Yes, any radiator the heat will go up and then warm the room from the top down.

Only advantage with a low one is you can put a shelf over to send the heat into the room before it rises but the difference is slight.

I was going to say something similar.

OP - Is there actually a door to the doorway next to the radiator? It is not obvious from the pictures.

When the weather gets colder, closing doors to rooms as much as possible can make a big difference, especially for certain types of property/layout.

pieroabcd

There's a door, but far from the radiator. 
Keeping doors closed is a given. It's a requisite to keep the rooms warm. 

pieroabcd

Freebear, what's the name and brand of those sensors? I can't find them on amazon.
I did the balancing without thermometers, very manually, so I don't know what's the temperature drop. I may try a couple of those. 

When I tried an IR sensor I noticed that the readings were completely random and unreliable, so returned it. 

Thanks for the info! 

pieroabcd

ThisIsWeird said:

pieroabcd said:

Yes, i mean in terms of heat output. 
Given two radiators with the same thermal capacity,  in terms of heat distribution is it better one that is longer rather than taller?
The balancing in this system was a bit of a nightmare. I had to do 4 or 5 tests to get a good result (as I wrote in another thread) because when I moved in I couldn't get any heat at all at the second floor.
Now it's working, but I had to sacrifice a bit this corner of the lounge ( not too much). 
The boiler seems to have 14Kw of power, so it should be more than enough.
When the flow valves are fully open and they receive water all rads get scalding hot, so it's definitely a matter of balancing. The tall ones get a bit less hot at the top, probably unavoidable? It doesn't happen to the regular rads, though. 
I bleed the radiators very frequently (twice a month in winter). Only the first two times I've seen some air. The water has always been spring clean. 
The pressure... This boiler simply refuses to work with less than 1.4 bar, complaining that there's too little water. 
Still to keep the pressure low, I keep the water temperature at 60 degrees, that serves me well in terms of comfort (or I begin to sweat). 
I'll open a bit more the flow valve here until it gets hot enough and I'll check what happens at the second floor. These are the only two variables for the moment. 

As you say, your boiler should be plenty powerful enough.
Most likely, I guess, is you still have some balancing issues.
When you tried to balance it all, did you use a couple of thermometers?
Anyhoo, to try and answer some of your Q's as best I can; although rads with convection fins are more likely to be better at heating a whole room than plain or column types, I doubt there will be much actual difference, if their respective outputs are the same.
And ditto with tall and standard - I cannot see it making more than a marginal difference either way.
Column rads should be hot all over - the I ternal water flow is designed to ensure that. But, like any rad, if they ain't getting enough flow, then it's the top that will suffer, and it makes 'sense' to me that tall rads would be especially vulnerable to a lack of flow.
Also, column rads must be connected the right way around - are you certain yours is?
I take it that subsequent bleeding does not produce any more air? Once settled, a sealed system should produce next to zero 'air'.
 How many storeys do you have? You may well need a higher system pressure if, say, 3, so that might explain the reluctance to operate below 1.4. 
In any system, 1.4 is ok anyway, not at all too high.
Do you have an analogue gauge? Either way, do you notice that the pressure drops the moment you turn on the CH? 
Does the pressure vary much, up or down, in use?
How many rads do you have?
Clean water is obviously a good sign? Do you also have a mag filter fitted? Inhibitor levels good?

Some difficult questions. 
I don't know if the columns rads are connected the right way round. I found them installed when I bought the house. How can I check?
Successive bleeding didn't release any air. 
What's the CH? 
The pressure ranges from 1.4 to 2.5-2.7 when the temperature climbs from 16 to 19 degrees, as is typical in my home in winter. After it's been off for 30 minutes or more it goes back down to 1.6-1.7.
I have 11 rads, including 3 small (but really hot) ones in the bathrooms.

As far as I know I don't have a mag filter fitted, or at least it's not mentioned anywhere. 
I don't have an analogue gauge, either. 

For whom asked, the ceilings are 2.4 high, except in the loft where they are 2m high.
3 storey house. 

ComicGeek

Most vertical column radiators aren't very efficient (ie don't produce much heat for their physical size when compared to standard horizontal panel radiators). Slimmer column radiators like you have even less so.

Very likely that it has been picked for aesthetic reasons rather than properly sized in terms of heat output. A family member bought a really cold house with tiny column rads downstairs - I worked out proper sizes for replacement ones and installed them, now keeps lovely and warm.

My favourite vertical column radiators are the Ultraheat Tilbrook, as they have a high output for their size - https://www.inspiredheating.co.uk/ultraheat-tilbrook-2000mm-high-designer-radiators. But good vertical radiators are expensive.

pieroabcd

I suspect that look was the primary reason (very wise).
There is another almost identical radiator on the other side, same model and height but much lower width due to lack of space. 

Also, there's no radiator on the party wall, so there's definitely a cold/hot spot layout.
Very very wise😬

FreeBear

pieroabcd said:

Freebear, what's the name and brand of those sensors? I can't find them on amazon.
I did the balancing without thermometers, very manually, so I don't know what's the temperature drop. I may try a couple of those.

You'll find Vaillant, Baxi, and a few others use that type of sensor on their boilers (silly money if you're buying genuine spares). Tried Amazon, and quite honestly, the search really sucks, so gave up after the first page or two. Instead, ebay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/387229808245 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/126119470693 Or you can try Aliexpress - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006680335016.html - Often find stuff on Aliexpress cheaper than ebay or amazon. Delivery times are usually pretty good, but watch out for silly shipping charges. The only downside is VAT only gets added at checkout.

Don't forget you'll also need something to read the temperature, eg - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256406321943 (but you'll need to solder the pipe clip sensor on after cutting the old one off). Most of these modules use a 10K NTC sensor. If you don't want to mess around soldering stuff, you could try this -

Balancing radiators by touch is a very imprecise method, and you'll find the whole system to be well out of whack.

Chickereeeee

EssexHebridean said:

We have a pair of them in our kitchen-diner and find they work really well for us - it’s a 12’ x 21’ space with 2 windows, patio doors, and 3 velux roof lights, high ceilinged too, but the rads are surprisingly effective. I too was concerned before we bought the house that they wouldn’t actually warm the place up and were more for show, but we’ve had no issues. Ours are black - no idea if that would make a difference - and ai have noticed that they never get really hot, but certainly still heat the room well. 

ETA - ours are taller than yours - roughly 7’ tall. 

Colour makes a difference. The worst  are chrome, which reduce heat output by about 40%. Black gives the best heat output.

Albermarle

Chickereeeee said:

EssexHebridean said:

We have a pair of them in our kitchen-diner and find they work really well for us - it’s a 12’ x 21’ space with 2 windows, patio doors, and 3 velux roof lights, high ceilinged too, but the rads are surprisingly effective. I too was concerned before we bought the house that they wouldn’t actually warm the place up and were more for show, but we’ve had no issues. Ours are black - no idea if that would make a difference - and ai have noticed that they never get really hot, but certainly still heat the room well. 

ETA - ours are taller than yours - roughly 7’ tall. 

Colour makes a difference. The worst  are chrome, which reduce heat output by about 40%. Black gives the best heat output.

Interesting.

I can only assume that the chrome finish is acting as a sort of semi insulator. In which case the radiator would use 40% less heat energy from the circulating hot water, otherwise you would be breaking the laws of physics !

FreeBear

Have had the parts kicking around for months, but this thread has given me the urge to pull the proverbial out..

Half an hour later with the soldering iron, I present this -

With the original sensors, the two meters were reading around 1°C apart. I can live with a 0.1°C difference

Absolute accuracy doesn't matter as long as the two meters agree on the same temperature.