Retrospective Carehome fees

Ammah45

Hi all.
I am not sure if this is the correct section of the forum for this but I was hoping for some advice.

My father passed away in a care home in early 2023. He had no assets other than his pension and his total bank account money was around £30K when he passed. A year or so after his passing I received a bill from the local council asking for nearly £6k in unpaid charges dating back to 2021-2022 (top-up fees). I checked his bank statements from that time and he had around £17k. I have argued that he didn't have sufficient funds to make him have to pay for his own care. 

My question is whether there is a certain amount of weekly income that the council have to ignore before billing? It doesn't seem like they have done this.
My other question is whether I am now liable to pay from what he left me in his will? I didn't sign a contract saying I am responsible.
I am not rich, I am a single parent, and have an ordinary job with a lot of bills. If I had it, I would pay it but I am now desperate.

Basically what can I do to reduce the liability?

Thanks   

elsien

You don’t need to sign anything to say that you are responsible. Any debts owed by the estate should be paid by the estate before the money goes to beneficiaries. So the debt would be due from the remainder of the estate at the time that he died. If you were the executor, then that makes it your responsibility.


With regards to fees out between 14250 and 23250 he pays a tariff from income. 

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/

I would ask for a full breakdown from a local authority as to how they’ve worked the bill out.
you might also want to note that if he had 30 K in the bank when he died he should have been fully self funding again so bear that in mind as well - it is possible to go back-and-forth between being fully funded and not. And it’s the responsibility of the person or their power of attorney to inform of this.

Hoenir

Ammah45 said:

My other question is whether I am now liable to pay from what he left me in his will? I didn't sign a contract saying I am responsible.

If you were the executor of your late fathers estate then in doing so you took on the legal responsibilities that go with it. Executors role being to settle any outstanding debts owed by the Estate prior to distributing any remaining monies. Failure to so makes the Executor personally liable in law. 

Baldytyke88

Ammah45 said:

My father passed away in a care home in early 2023. He had no assets other than his pension and his total bank account money was around £30K when he passed. A year or so after his passing I received a bill from the local council asking for nearly £6k in unpaid charges dating back to 2021-2022 (top-up fees). I checked his bank statements from that time and he had around £17k. I have argued that he didn't have sufficient funds to make him have to pay for his own care. 

If you have savings of £14,250 or more, then you will pay for some or all of your care. The savings limit might have been slightly lower when your father passed away, but if he had savings of £30k then he would have paid for his care.

Why didn't he pay for his care at the time, before his death?

NedS

Hoenir said:

Ammah45 said:

My other question is whether I am now liable to pay from what he left me in his will? I didn't sign a contract saying I am responsible.

If you were the executor of your late fathers estate then in doing so you took on the legal responsibilities that go with it. Executors role being to settle any outstanding debts owed by the Estate prior to distributing any remaining monies. Failure to so makes the Executor personally liable in law. 

Is there a time limit? In this case, the deceased passed ~18 months ago. How long should an executor delay settling the estate in waiting for potential debts to be presented against the estate? At what point can the executors settle the estate in good faith? The LA must have known the person had died - is it not unreasonable to expect them to present any outstanding debt within a reasonable amount of time?

Flugelhorn

NedS said:

Hoenir said:

Ammah45 said:

My other question is whether I am now liable to pay from what he left me in his will? I didn't sign a contract saying I am responsible.

If you were the executor of your late fathers estate then in doing so you took on the legal responsibilities that go with it. Executors role being to settle any outstanding debts owed by the Estate prior to distributing any remaining monies. Failure to so makes the Executor personally liable in law. 

Is there a time limit? In this case, the deceased passed ~18 months ago. How long should an executor delay settling the estate in waiting for potential debts to be presented against the estate? At what point can the executors settle the estate in good faith? The LA must have known the person had died - is it not unreasonable to expect them to present any outstanding debt within a reasonable amount of time?

it is probably several years - far more than you might expect. The executor can advertise in the gazette to see if the are any remaining debts, this may exempt the executor from responsibility but the beneficiaries might still be liable 

HillStreetBlues

You need a breakdown of how the fees were calculation and check if they applied the diminishing capital rule.

Keep_pedalling

While he was in care most of his income would have been going to his care costs so how did his assets manage to go from £17k to £30k in a year?

The top up payment also confuse me as they have to be paid by someone other than the resident, so who should have been paying them?

kaMelo

The question of care home fees and, given the level of capital held, why they weren't self funding was raised by some posters over twelve months ago.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6463598/inheritance-and-dwp/p1

Baldytyke88

kaMelo said:

The question of care home fees and, given the level of capital held, why they weren't self funding was raised by some posters over twelve months ago.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6463598/inheritance-and-dwp/p1

People don't always tell the truth?

elsien

From the other thread, there was a DWP overpayment because OP's father was not informing of increase in savings.  There is no mention of an LPA. So on that basis it does sound possible that the care home financial assessment was not updated as regularly as it should have been. 
Agree it is confusing about the top up because that would have had to be a third party agreement.

OP - who completed the financial assessment and who supported your father with his finances once he moved to the care home? You say on the earlier thread that " I spoke to the care home and they confirmed that he was being assessed regularly by the council and all his payments were up to date. I actually saw the council inspector when I went to pick up his belongings and he confirmed that there is nothing else to pay." 
But they would only know about savings having increased if that was disclosed to them, so either your dad had capacity around his finances and didn't tell them, or whoever was supporting him if he lacked capacity didn't update when they should have?