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Banks to be able to hold suspicious payments for 4 days
Comments
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Rob5342 said:The speed you need depends on the amount. You might need a few hundred pounds transferring instantly but you are unlikely to want to transfer tens of thousands without knowing a few weeks beforehand. I don't see why they can't have a notification from the app to do a second approval some time after the first request.
I do hope this system does have an ability to "learn" what are genuine transfers and not block them, say FPs to credit card companies etc.0 -
Shakin_Steve said:boingy said:Unfortunately I think we'll see even longer delays and frustrations to many legitimate transfers, made much worse by the near-certainty that banks won't take on any extra staff to deal with the extra workload. It took me just over 1 hour on hold to contact the Co-op about a blocked payment. I had another recently with a different bank where they texted me to ask "Is this payment OK?" and when I texted back "Yes" they immediately phoned me, but it was their automated system that phoned me then played me a recorded message and then put me in a bloody queue! 20 minutes later I hung up, because I had to go out.
If they are not careful we'll all go back to writing cheques to ourselves to transfer money between accounts.0 -
NorwichMan said:I don't really understand how we got to a situation where it's considered that the banks are responsible to refund customers who have been tricked into sending money to fraudsters. Surely it is the fraudsters who are responsible first, and perhaps also customers who do not take reasonable care (or who might in some cases be working with the fraudster, claiming to have been tricked and then requesting a refund)?
In cases where the bank has been negligent or at fault in some way then yes they should be liable. But when they ask "are you really sure" and the customer says yes go ahead, then later says "I was tricked," I am not sure why this is considered to be the banks fault.I came into this world with nothing and I've got most of it left.4 -
friolento said:Ergates said:This will be inconvenient, but given banks are now forced to repay fraudulent payments, I can't think of a solid argument against it. It's an obvious consequence.
No real reason for introducing an additional 4-day delay, particularly not in the AI age, where less human interaction and intervention is needed (or so we are told).
But yes, it’s all due to a few feckless people who have still not heard about fraudsters, and due to some fraudsters who think they can outsmart banks.
There is no regulatory requirement at the moment for them to return push fraud monies but most banks do anyway as they signed up to https://www.lendingstandardsboard.org.uk/crm-code/ but even that code has reasons why refunds shouldn't be given.0 -
Ergates said:Shakin_Steve said:boingy said:Unfortunately I think we'll see even longer delays and frustrations to many legitimate transfers, made much worse by the near-certainty that banks won't take on any extra staff to deal with the extra workload. It took me just over 1 hour on hold to contact the Co-op about a blocked payment. I had another recently with a different bank where they texted me to ask "Is this payment OK?" and when I texted back "Yes" they immediately phoned me, but it was their automated system that phoned me then played me a recorded message and then put me in a bloody queue! 20 minutes later I hung up, because I had to go out.
If they are not careful we'll all go back to writing cheques to ourselves to transfer money between accounts.I came into this world with nothing and I've got most of it left.0 -
NorwichMan said:In cases where the bank has been negligent or at fault in some way then yes they should be liable. But when they ask "are you really sure" and the customer says yes go ahead, then later says "I was tricked," I am not sure why this is considered to be the banks fault.Banks aren't required to reimburse customers who've been grossly negligent in ignoring warnings, a subject that has been examined in considerable detail as part of the design of this process (and refined from the years it's been used on a voluntary basis):https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81025860/#Comment_81025860
https://www.psr.org.uk/media/as3a0xan/sr1-consumer-standard-of-caution-guidance-dec-2023.pdf
Although Confirmation of Payee isn't explicitly mentioned there, my expectation would be that if a customer chooses to ignore a CoP name mismatch warning, then the bank isn't obliged to reimburse, as this would be considered a sufficiently specific warning, rather than a generic boilerplate one.3 -
Thanks eskbanker, that is an interesting read.1
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From the PSR website:
- You won’t get your money back if you’re found to have been complicit in the fraud or grossly negligent. Gross negligence is a high bar and this exception does not apply to vulnerable consumers.
I came into this world with nothing and I've got most of it left.1 -
Ergates said:Shakin_Steve said:boingy said:Unfortunately I think we'll see even longer delays and frustrations to many legitimate transfers, made much worse by the near-certainty that banks won't take on any extra staff to deal with the extra workload. It took me just over 1 hour on hold to contact the Co-op about a blocked payment. I had another recently with a different bank where they texted me to ask "Is this payment OK?" and when I texted back "Yes" they immediately phoned me, but it was their automated system that phoned me then played me a recorded message and then put me in a bloody queue! 20 minutes later I hung up, because I had to go out.
If they are not careful we'll all go back to writing cheques to ourselves to transfer money between accounts.
I had to make multiple large payments recently, to an existing payee to whom I'd made dozens of payments to over the last 15 years. Because these were larger amounts than normal (5x the normal amount), they were all flagged. I had to call Santander every time to get them to release the payment. There was no way to "whitelist" upcoming payments. The algorithm functions on the value and won't be bypassed.2 -
robatwork said:Ergates said:Shakin_Steve said:boingy said:Unfortunately I think we'll see even longer delays and frustrations to many legitimate transfers, made much worse by the near-certainty that banks won't take on any extra staff to deal with the extra workload. It took me just over 1 hour on hold to contact the Co-op about a blocked payment. I had another recently with a different bank where they texted me to ask "Is this payment OK?" and when I texted back "Yes" they immediately phoned me, but it was their automated system that phoned me then played me a recorded message and then put me in a bloody queue! 20 minutes later I hung up, because I had to go out.
If they are not careful we'll all go back to writing cheques to ourselves to transfer money between accounts.
I had to make multiple large payments recently, to an existing payee to whom I'd made dozens of payments to over the last 15 years. Because these were larger amounts than normal (5x the normal amount), they were all flagged. I had to call Santander every time to get them to release the payment. There was no way to "whitelist" upcoming payments. The algorithm functions on the value and won't be bypassed.I had a similar situation with Chase. When I went through their verification process the first time I told them I would be making a number of such payments over the coming days. Still had to go through their process each time, last one taking forty minutes.Made sure I had a comfy seat and a cup of tea before I phoned themThings that are differerent: draw & drawer, brought & bought, loose & lose, dose & does, payed & paid2
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