Very confused about Air Source Heat Pump

Reed_Richards

baxie said:

She was quoted as getting something that would be 300% more efficient. 

She should be able to get something that does that.  Which is why the figures she has been quoted should be better.  If I inherited solar thermal panels I might use them to heat the water in the DHW cylinder via a second coil or preheat the water fed to the main DHW cylinder via a second tank.  But I don't qualify for a grant so I get a say in what an installer has to do.

etienneg

Efficiency and cost are two completely separate things - don't get confused!

So, whatever they mean by "300% more efficient" (3 times? 3 times better = 4 times?), this is NOT the saving to expect!

The new system will need electricity, but what do you buy at the moment? Electricity is MUCH more expensive than gas. (I pay 22.48p/kWh for electricity but only 5.41p/kWh for gas - that is 4.16 times as much.)

Let's say the new system was 4 times as efficient (you need only 1/4 as much), but the new fuel costs 4.16 times as much as the old. Then it would cost MORE to run!

You really need to answer the question about what you use at present and look at the tariff.

Netexporter

And the £1000 for removing the solar thermal panels will net you a PV array worth about 4 times that.

Reed_Richards

etienneg said:

You really need to answer the question about what you use at present and look at the tariff.

baxie said:

The current system is a tank where the water is heated by electricity with the solar thermal panels assisting.  

Question already answered, surely?  The current system is based around a thermal store which is heated electrically with the assistance of solar thermal panels.  

NedS

Reed_Richards said:

baxie said:

She was quoted as getting something that would be 300% more efficient. 

She should be able to get something that does that.  Which is why the figures she has been quoted should be better.  If I inherited solar thermal panels I might use them to heat the water in the DHW cylinder via a second coil or preheat the water fed to the main DHW cylinder via a second tank.  But I don't qualify for a grant so I get a say in what an installer has to do.

With respect to that point, we took a view that we were getting maybe ~£50k worth of works for free under the scheme, so if it was not 100% what we wanted, and had to spend a a couple thousand afterwards making minor adjustments or optimisations to get exactly what we wanted, it was still unbelievably good value when viewed overall. But I do appreciate many who are eligible for such schemes may not have the luxury of a couple thousand to pay for additional remedial works.

matt_drummer

NedS said:

Reed_Richards said:

baxie said:

She was quoted as getting something that would be 300% more efficient. 

She should be able to get something that does that.  Which is why the figures she has been quoted should be better.  If I inherited solar thermal panels I might use them to heat the water in the DHW cylinder via a second coil or preheat the water fed to the main DHW cylinder via a second tank.  But I don't qualify for a grant so I get a say in what an installer has to do.

With respect to that point, we took a view that we were getting maybe ~£50k worth of works for free under the scheme, so if it was not 100% what we wanted, and had to spend a a couple thousand afterwards making minor adjustments or optimisations to get exactly what we wanted, it was still unbelievably good value when viewed overall. But I do appreciate many who are eligible for such schemes may not have the luxury of a couple thousand to pay for additional remedial works.

I don't really understand this.

The work is not free, it's just that you don't pay for it?

Who does pay for the £50,000 worth of work?

How do you qualify?

You have an electric vehicle (maybe I'm confused here and that is another who is getting `free' stuff who has enough money to buy an ev) and a few thousand pounds to make improvements as I understand.

I am genuinely interested in how this works.

I had to get a bank loan for all my stuff, save for the £5,000 BUS grant.

How do you get £50,000 or thereabouts?

NedS

matt_drummer said:

NedS said:

Reed_Richards said:

baxie said:

She was quoted as getting something that would be 300% more efficient. 

She should be able to get something that does that.  Which is why the figures she has been quoted should be better.  If I inherited solar thermal panels I might use them to heat the water in the DHW cylinder via a second coil or preheat the water fed to the main DHW cylinder via a second tank.  But I don't qualify for a grant so I get a say in what an installer has to do.

With respect to that point, we took a view that we were getting maybe ~£50k worth of works for free under the scheme, so if it was not 100% what we wanted, and had to spend a a couple thousand afterwards making minor adjustments or optimisations to get exactly what we wanted, it was still unbelievably good value when viewed overall. But I do appreciate many who are eligible for such schemes may not have the luxury of a couple thousand to pay for additional remedial works.

I don't really understand this.

The work is not free, it's just that you don't pay for it?

Who does pay for the £50,000 worth of work?

How do you qualify?

You have an electric vehicle (maybe I'm confused here and that is another who is getting `free' stuff who has enough money to buy an ev) and a few thousand pounds to make improvements as I understand.

I am genuinely interested in how this works.

I had to get a bank loan for all my stuff, save for the £5,000 BUS grant.

How do you get £50,000 or thereabouts?

No electric vehicle here.

ECO4 scheme, you can look up the criteria to qualify online, which include those on low incomes or with health conditions.

I have no idea of the full cost of the works we had done as you don't get to see numbers, but I know we have discussed in detail in other threads the costs of a full ASHP retrofit (ASHP, DHW tank, complete replumb, 12 new radiators, labour etc), plus we had internal insulation to all solid stone external walls and uninsulated vaulted ceilings (including complete replastering, joiner in for new window sills and skirting boards, carpet fitter to refit carpets), and a 3.6kWp solar install. Add that lot up and I expect you are not a million miles short of £50k - OK, maybe £30-40K

You are right, it's not free, our commitment to reduce emission comes at a cost to us all. Funding for the ECO4 scheme comes from the large energy companies and the Government. We all pay for the energy companies contribution through higher bills and for the Government contribution through higher taxes. The rationale is that the cost we pay is lower than the fines we would have to pay under the international agreements we have signed up to to reduce emission, and the only way we will meet those targets is by financially incentivising people to make those savings - through schemes like the BUS grant, ECO4, and the huge tax incentives on electric vehicles etc.

As a result of the funding we received, we are now not burning 2000L of oil every year and not importing 3,500kWh of electricity due to solar generation, and have reduced our CO2 emissions accordingly, which in theory will save the tax payer more in fines than the cost of the works. Even with all these schemes it is still very unlikely we will meet the targets to which we have agreed, hence the current governments urgency to ramp up renewables deployment in the UK.