Front room radiator never gets hot

1404

I live in a 22 year old townhouse. Redrow built. Original radiators and boiler still here. 

All the other radiators in the house get hot except for my living room radiator (ground floor). The living room radiator barely even gets warm. It's been like that since I moved in 6 years ago.

One gas engineer said to me it's something to do with cheap plastic pipes being used during construction and there's nothing that can be done about it. 

Anyone have similar or know of a way to fix it? 

ic

Does it get warm towards the top or bottom of the radiator?  Have you tried bleeding the radiator?   It might be full of trapped air.

Has the system been balanced?  Do you have TRVs on the radiators?  How far from the boiler is the radiator?  Do you know if it might it be the first or last on pipework from the boiler?

Kiran

Does it get any heat or is it stone cold? Try unscrewing the TRV head and leaving it off. Also undo the lockshield (taken account of the number of turns so you can put it back afterwards. If this gets any heat into the radiator then the problem is the TRV or the balance. Do the lockshield up to the original setting and see if there is still heat. If that's the case its the TRV, if not then its the balance. When you take the TRV head off push the pin down a couple of times to see if its stuck. Id try these as the first port of call. If you have heat up high but nothing down low it will be sludge, if its hot down low and nothing up top then it needs bleeding.

Hopefully one of these will help the situation

Oldspeckledhen

You could also try running the heating with all the other radiators turned off. This forces water though the problem radiator and if it starts working then turn the others back on. Can sometimes shift an airlock or muck in the radiator.

Mutton_Geoff

https://youtu.be/pol8IlkfAZA

ThisIsWeird

1404 said:

I live in a 22 year old townhouse. Redrow built. Original radiators and boiler still here. 
All the other radiators in the house get hot except for my living room radiator (ground floor). The living room radiator barely even gets warm. It's been like that since I moved in 6 years ago.
One gas engineer said to me it's something to do with cheap plastic pipes being used during construction and there's nothing that can be done about it. 
Anyone have similar or know of a way to fix it? 

Pretty much covered by others, but in more detail below if you are new to this, and wish to try a few things:

Firstly, almost certainly you should find yourself a new GasSafe, as this fellow should have a few options under his belt that will sort it. By blaming the 'cheap plastic pipes', I'm guessing he means 'microbore', which will typically be 10mm O/D, and under 8mm I/D, which - yes - is therefore more vulnerable to being blocked by sludge created by slowly corroding radiators. However, if this is the case, then he should be strongly recommending a fix, since this is not a situation you want to continue, or become worse.

Could you confirm, please - make and model of boiler? And, does it have a pressure gauge?

Ok, your test:

1) get a wee glass, and 'bleed' that rad's whatsit to check for any air inside (your GS should surely have tried this anyway?) Go a bit further - get a few teaspoons of water in the glass, hold it up, and check its colour; what's it like? Close the bleed screw, and check your boiler pressure - re-top to 1bar if needed.

2) close off all the other rads using their TRVs. Don't turn on your CH yet.
3) 'feel' the problem rad's TRV as you fully open and close it; if it's in a room at 'normal' room temp, you should feel it becomes more loose and easy to turn as you go UP past the '3' setting. Ie, more firm to turn as you turn it down to 'frost', and more loose to turn as you open it up past around 3. Does it?
4) Ok, now open it to max or '5', and unscrew and remove it from the chrome valve by undoing the serrated chrome collar under the plastic head. 
See the metal pin at the top of the exposed valve? Use a teaspoon or similar on yer thumb ('cos it'll hurt otherwise) to push it down quite firmly. It should move down smoothly around 6-odd mm, bottoming with a firm thunk, and pop up freely when released. Does it?

5) the valve at the other end is called a 'lockshield'. It is there to 'balance' your system, so that each rad gets its correct amount of flow; rads which are further away from the boiler, and larger rads, need more flow, so their l/s valves will typically be tweaked open a bit more. Don't worry about that - it's just for your info. Ok, the l/s on this rad - pull off the spinny plastic cap to expose the spindle underneath. That spindle should have 'flats' on it. Note down which way the flat is facing, because you want to return it there afterwards; a good idea is to sellotape a wee paper flag to it as an indicator. Get a well-fitting spanner or plier, and back-and-forth the spindle a quarter turn to check it can turn freely.

Now, turn it clockwise (closed), counting every full and part turn it takes to be fully closed - ie it comes to a halt. Note this down - how far 'open' was it? (This will usually be a small amount - perhaps a turn or two, but don't worry - just note it down). Now re-open it to where it was originally, and a couple of good turns more - it'll now be well-open!

6) turn on your CH, check that the 'flow' pipe from your boiler is getting hot. Feel the pipes to that rad - the TRV side (ideally) should become hot first. Does the rad heat up? If so, how well?

1404

ThisIsWeird said:

1404 said:

I live in a 22 year old townhouse. Redrow built. Original radiators and boiler still here. 
All the other radiators in the house get hot except for my living room radiator (ground floor). The living room radiator barely even gets warm. It's been like that since I moved in 6 years ago.
One gas engineer said to me it's something to do with cheap plastic pipes being used during construction and there's nothing that can be done about it. 
Anyone have similar or know of a way to fix it? 

Pretty much covered by others, but in more detail below if you are new to this, and wish to try a few things:

Firstly, almost certainly you should find yourself a new GasSafe, as this fellow should have a few options under his belt that will sort it. By blaming the 'cheap plastic pipes', I'm guessing he means 'microbore', which will typically be 10mm O/D, and under 8mm I/D, which - yes - is therefore more vulnerable to being blocked by sludge created by slowly corroding radiators. However, if this is the case, then he should be strongly recommending a fix, since this is not a situation you want to continue, or become worse.

Could you confirm, please - make and model of boiler? And, does it have a pressure gauge?

Ok, your test:

1) get a wee glass, and 'bleed' that rad's whatsit to check for any air inside (your GS should surely have tried this anyway?) Go a bit further - get a few teaspoons of water in the glass, hold it up, and check its colour; what's it like? Close the bleed screw, and check your boiler pressure - re-top to 1bar if needed.

2) close off all the other rads using their TRVs. Don't turn on your CH yet.
3) 'feel' the problem rad's TRV as you fully open and close it; if it's in a room at 'normal' room temp, you should feel it becomes more loose and easy to turn as you go UP past the '3' setting. Ie, more firm to turn as you turn it down to 'frost', and more loose to turn as you open it up past around 3. Does it?
4) Ok, now open it to max or '5', and unscrew and remove it from the chrome valve by undoing the serrated chrome collar under the plastic head. 
See the metal pin at the top of the exposed valve? Use a teaspoon or similar on yer thumb ('cos it'll hurt otherwise) to push it down quite firmly. It should move down smoothly around 6-odd mm, bottoming with a firm thunk, and pop up freely when released. Does it?

5) the valve at the other end is called a 'lockshield'. It is there to 'balance' your system, so that each rad gets its correct amount of flow; rads which are further away from the boiler, and larger rads, need more flow, so their l/s valves will typically be tweaked open a bit more. Don't worry about that - it's just for your info. Ok, the l/s on this rad - pull off the spinny plastic cap to expose the spindle underneath. That spindle should have 'flats' on it. Note down which way the flat is facing, because you want to return it there afterwards; a good idea is to sellotape a wee paper flag to it as an indicator. Get a well-fitting spanner or plier, and back-and-forth the spindle a quarter turn to check it can turn freely.

Now, turn it clockwise (closed), counting every full and part turn it takes to be fully closed - ie it comes to a halt. Note this down - how far 'open' was it? (This will usually be a small amount - perhaps a turn or two, but don't worry - just note it down). Now re-open it to where it was originally, and a couple of good turns more - it'll now be well-open!

6) turn on your CH, check that the 'flow' pipe from your boiler is getting hot. Feel the pipes to that rad - the TRV side (ideally) should become hot first. Does the rad heat up? If so, how well?

Thank you very much indeed for these details instructions which I have just followed.

There was no air in the radiator panel (it's a small double radiator in the ground floor living room). I bled some water into a cup and it's clear water (a bit aeriated and not entirely pleasant to smell).

The pin under the thermostat side pressed down and pops back up. The open/close on the other side was turned almost all the way open already. It was about 1/4 of a turn from being open. It's now fully open. 

I switched off all the other radiators and switched the heating on and the radiator (both panels of it) is now hot! I can't keep my hand on it for more than 5 seconds and it's been going for about 10-15 mins. 

So the pipes in the wall leading to it are obviously not blocked. So I wonder what the issue was/is? Is it that it simply won't get hot when the other rads are on? (I'll find out soon). Or is it that fully opening the other valve was necessary? (It was almost fully open anyway).

Below is my boiler. I actually have another thread on the go about whether or not I should continue with my £29 (soon to be £35) a month British Gas insurance. The boiler is original to the house (22 years old) and hasn't been a problem for me in the 7 years I've been here. 

Grenage

It may be as simple as the radiators need balancing.  Google the process, it's not too complicated.

ThisIsWeird

1404 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

1404 said:

I live in a 22 year old townhouse. Redrow built. Original radiators and boiler still here. 
All the other radiators in the house get hot except for my living room radiator (ground floor). The living room radiator barely even gets warm. It's been like that since I moved in 6 years ago.
One gas engineer said to me it's something to do with cheap plastic pipes being used during construction and there's nothing that can be done about it. 
Anyone have similar or know of a way to fix it? 

Pretty much covered by others, but in more detail below if you are new to this, and wish to try a few things:

Firstly, almost certainly you should find yourself a new GasSafe, as this fellow should have a few options under his belt that will sort it. By blaming the 'cheap plastic pipes', I'm guessing he means 'microbore', which will typically be 10mm O/D, and under 8mm I/D, which - yes - is therefore more vulnerable to being blocked by sludge created by slowly corroding radiators. However, if this is the case, then he should be strongly recommending a fix, since this is not a situation you want to continue, or become worse.

Could you confirm, please - make and model of boiler? And, does it have a pressure gauge?

Ok, your test:

1) get a wee glass, and 'bleed' that rad's whatsit to check for any air inside (your GS should surely have tried this anyway?) Go a bit further - get a few teaspoons of water in the glass, hold it up, and check its colour; what's it like? Close the bleed screw, and check your boiler pressure - re-top to 1bar if needed.

2) close off all the other rads using their TRVs. Don't turn on your CH yet.
3) 'feel' the problem rad's TRV as you fully open and close it; if it's in a room at 'normal' room temp, you should feel it becomes more loose and easy to turn as you go UP past the '3' setting. Ie, more firm to turn as you turn it down to 'frost', and more loose to turn as you open it up past around 3. Does it?
4) Ok, now open it to max or '5', and unscrew and remove it from the chrome valve by undoing the serrated chrome collar under the plastic head. 
See the metal pin at the top of the exposed valve? Use a teaspoon or similar on yer thumb ('cos it'll hurt otherwise) to push it down quite firmly. It should move down smoothly around 6-odd mm, bottoming with a firm thunk, and pop up freely when released. Does it?

5) the valve at the other end is called a 'lockshield'. It is there to 'balance' your system, so that each rad gets its correct amount of flow; rads which are further away from the boiler, and larger rads, need more flow, so their l/s valves will typically be tweaked open a bit more. Don't worry about that - it's just for your info. Ok, the l/s on this rad - pull off the spinny plastic cap to expose the spindle underneath. That spindle should have 'flats' on it. Note down which way the flat is facing, because you want to return it there afterwards; a good idea is to sellotape a wee paper flag to it as an indicator. Get a well-fitting spanner or plier, and back-and-forth the spindle a quarter turn to check it can turn freely.

Now, turn it clockwise (closed), counting every full and part turn it takes to be fully closed - ie it comes to a halt. Note this down - how far 'open' was it? (This will usually be a small amount - perhaps a turn or two, but don't worry - just note it down). Now re-open it to where it was originally, and a couple of good turns more - it'll now be well-open!

6) turn on your CH, check that the 'flow' pipe from your boiler is getting hot. Feel the pipes to that rad - the TRV side (ideally) should become hot first. Does the rad heat up? If so, how well?

Thank you very much indeed for these details instructions which I have just followed.

There was no air in the radiator panel (it's a small double radiator in the ground floor living room). I bled some water into a cup and it's clear water (a bit aeriated and not entirely pleasant to smell).

The pin under the thermostat side pressed down and pops back up. The open/close on the other side was turned almost all the way open already. It was about 1/4 of a turn from being open. It's now fully open. 

I switched off all the other radiators and switched the heating on and the radiator (both panels of it) is now hot! I can't keep my hand on it for more than 5 seconds and it's been going for about 10-15 mins. 

So the pipes in the wall leading to it are obviously not blocked. So I wonder what the issue was/is? Is it that it simply won't get hot when the other rads are on? (I'll find out soon). Or is it that fully opening the other valve was necessary? (It was almost fully open anyway).

Below is my boiler. I actually have another thread on the go about whether or not I should continue with my £29 (soon to be £35) a month British Gas insurance. The boiler is original to the house (22 years old) and hasn't been a problem for me in the 7 years I've been here. 

That's a good result. No 'air' in the rad suggests there's no issues like corrosion going on. Clear water reinforces that. The smell - 'chemical'? - is likely corrosion inhibitor, which is also good.
Your TRV valve body seems to be working fine - the pin is not sticky. A wee test of the 'head' part; turn it upside down and look at the centre of the underside - you'll see a round black plastic pin there that pushes against the valve's metal pin? Turn the control from max to min a few times, and see if that plastic pin moves in and out. Does it?
The other valve is the 'lockshield'. Interesting that is was nearly fully open! When set - when the radiator system is correctly 'balanced' - they are usually only open one or two turns from the fully closed position, so yours was effectively fully open, so no sense of 'balance' there!
So, why wasn't your rad coming on? A couple of possible reasons I can think of; one is that your TRV head could be faulty (you are checking this), and was keeping that side 'off', and the other is that all your other rad's lockshields are also too far open, so were stealing all the hot boiler flow. That rad was just losing out because it is possibly further from the boiler, for example?
Your boiler is an oldie, non-condensing, but working fine. It's basic, but that means less to go wrong! I'd keep it going until it properly goes kaput.
As Grenage suggests, your whole system likely needs balancing. It ain't hard to do, but is time consuming, so a good DIY job. Do some research, watch some vids, grab a couple of pipe thermometers, and make a cuppa.
Meanwhile, check the TRV head, please. Another way is to refit it (turn it to 'max' before removing and refitting - it's easier), and then turn it up and down a few times. At normal room temp, you should feel it becoming looser to turn above around '3', and firmer as you turn it down below 3. Is it?

1404

ThisIsWeird said:

1404 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

1404 said:

I live in a 22 year old townhouse. Redrow built. Original radiators and boiler still here. 
All the other radiators in the house get hot except for my living room radiator (ground floor). The living room radiator barely even gets warm. It's been like that since I moved in 6 years ago.
One gas engineer said to me it's something to do with cheap plastic pipes being used during construction and there's nothing that can be done about it. 
Anyone have similar or know of a way to fix it? 

Pretty much covered by others, but in more detail below if you are new to this, and wish to try a few things:

Firstly, almost certainly you should find yourself a new GasSafe, as this fellow should have a few options under his belt that will sort it. By blaming the 'cheap plastic pipes', I'm guessing he means 'microbore', which will typically be 10mm O/D, and under 8mm I/D, which - yes - is therefore more vulnerable to being blocked by sludge created by slowly corroding radiators. However, if this is the case, then he should be strongly recommending a fix, since this is not a situation you want to continue, or become worse.

Could you confirm, please - make and model of boiler? And, does it have a pressure gauge?

Ok, your test:

1) get a wee glass, and 'bleed' that rad's whatsit to check for any air inside (your GS should surely have tried this anyway?) Go a bit further - get a few teaspoons of water in the glass, hold it up, and check its colour; what's it like? Close the bleed screw, and check your boiler pressure - re-top to 1bar if needed.

2) close off all the other rads using their TRVs. Don't turn on your CH yet.
3) 'feel' the problem rad's TRV as you fully open and close it; if it's in a room at 'normal' room temp, you should feel it becomes more loose and easy to turn as you go UP past the '3' setting. Ie, more firm to turn as you turn it down to 'frost', and more loose to turn as you open it up past around 3. Does it?
4) Ok, now open it to max or '5', and unscrew and remove it from the chrome valve by undoing the serrated chrome collar under the plastic head. 
See the metal pin at the top of the exposed valve? Use a teaspoon or similar on yer thumb ('cos it'll hurt otherwise) to push it down quite firmly. It should move down smoothly around 6-odd mm, bottoming with a firm thunk, and pop up freely when released. Does it?

5) the valve at the other end is called a 'lockshield'. It is there to 'balance' your system, so that each rad gets its correct amount of flow; rads which are further away from the boiler, and larger rads, need more flow, so their l/s valves will typically be tweaked open a bit more. Don't worry about that - it's just for your info. Ok, the l/s on this rad - pull off the spinny plastic cap to expose the spindle underneath. That spindle should have 'flats' on it. Note down which way the flat is facing, because you want to return it there afterwards; a good idea is to sellotape a wee paper flag to it as an indicator. Get a well-fitting spanner or plier, and back-and-forth the spindle a quarter turn to check it can turn freely.

Now, turn it clockwise (closed), counting every full and part turn it takes to be fully closed - ie it comes to a halt. Note this down - how far 'open' was it? (This will usually be a small amount - perhaps a turn or two, but don't worry - just note it down). Now re-open it to where it was originally, and a couple of good turns more - it'll now be well-open!

6) turn on your CH, check that the 'flow' pipe from your boiler is getting hot. Feel the pipes to that rad - the TRV side (ideally) should become hot first. Does the rad heat up? If so, how well?

Thank you very much indeed for these details instructions which I have just followed.

There was no air in the radiator panel (it's a small double radiator in the ground floor living room). I bled some water into a cup and it's clear water (a bit aeriated and not entirely pleasant to smell).

The pin under the thermostat side pressed down and pops back up. The open/close on the other side was turned almost all the way open already. It was about 1/4 of a turn from being open. It's now fully open. 

I switched off all the other radiators and switched the heating on and the radiator (both panels of it) is now hot! I can't keep my hand on it for more than 5 seconds and it's been going for about 10-15 mins. 

So the pipes in the wall leading to it are obviously not blocked. So I wonder what the issue was/is? Is it that it simply won't get hot when the other rads are on? (I'll find out soon). Or is it that fully opening the other valve was necessary? (It was almost fully open anyway).

Below is my boiler. I actually have another thread on the go about whether or not I should continue with my £29 (soon to be £35) a month British Gas insurance. The boiler is original to the house (22 years old) and hasn't been a problem for me in the 7 years I've been here. 

That's a good result. No 'air' in the rad suggests there's no issues like corrosion going on. Clear water reinforces that. The smell - 'chemical'? - is likely corrosion inhibitor, which is also good.
Your TRV valve body seems to be working fine - the pin is not sticky. A wee test of the 'head' part; turn it upside down and look at the centre of the underside - you'll see a round black plastic pin there that pushes against the valve's metal pin? Turn the control from max to min a few times, and see if that plastic pin moves in and out. Does it?
The other valve is the 'lockshield'. Interesting that is was nearly fully open! When set - when the radiator system is correctly 'balanced' - they are usually only open one or two turns from the fully closed position, so yours was effectively fully open, so no sense of 'balance' there!
So, why wasn't your rad coming on? A couple of possible reasons I can think of; one is that your TRV head could be faulty (you are checking this), and was keeping that side 'off', and the other is that all your other rad's lockshields are also too far open, so were stealing all the hot boiler flow. That rad was just losing out because it is possibly further from the boiler, for example?
Your boiler is an oldie, non-condensing, but working fine. It's basic, but that means less to go wrong! I'd keep it going until it properly goes kaput.
As Grenage suggests, your whole system likely needs balancing. It ain't hard to do, but is time consuming, so a good DIY job. Do some research, watch some vids, grab a couple of pipe thermometers, and make a cuppa.
Meanwhile, check the TRV head, please. Another way is to refit it (turn it to 'max' before removing and refitting - it's easier), and then turn it up and down a few times. At normal room temp, you should feel it becoming looser to turn above around '3', and firmer as you turn it down below 3. Is it?

Yes, the TRV valve appears to be fine.  It gets easier to turn up to 5 and the black pin moves up and down as it's turned.  I think maybe that the radiators need to be rebalanced.  This is much more welcome news than the pipes being blocked and nothing I can do about it!  And quite amazing that no engineer has suggested anything about rebalancing the radiators (or at least not that I can ever recall).


Thank you very much for your brilliant help!

FreeBear

Grenage said:

It may be as simple as the radiators need balancing.  Google the process, it's not too complicated.

But to balance radiators well does need some equipment. Doing it by feel is way too inaccurate, and an IR thermometer is also a waste of time. A cheap way to to grab a couple of LCD thermometer modules such as https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256406321943 (also available from other online merchants). Use an old pipe clip to hold the sensor in contact with the pipes, and you're all set to go. Picture attached.