Money Moral Dilemma: My daughter delivered a wedding cake an hour late - should she fully refund?

Ringo90

wy9n99wwf said:

Yes, I read the OP. However, I suspect that you have mis-read my post, as you are asking whether I have read the OP juxtaposed to adding that 6pm was in the contract, which I had not questioned.

My post was agreeing with another person who had opined that more information would help. It gave a specific example of such further information: that because contract law distinguishes between a “breach” and a “material breach”, it might be useful to know whether the timing had been stated in the contract to be of “utmost importance”. I suspect you are not aware of these legal nuances.

I have not disagreed with anyone who said the supplier was in the wrong, or that her failure might have had a substantially bad effect on the buyer. Had the supplier contacted the buyer as soon as she was aware of her mistake, and explained that the cake would not be delivered until 7pm, and asked whether the buyer would still want to proceed, I think there might have been an interesting conversation.

I am not aware of the legal nuances, of course, because this is NOT a legal forum and we're not supposed to give legal advice. The question is about moral, ethics and what's right from a "customer service" point of view, not from a legal point of view. And from a customer service point of view, the business has to consider it was a very specific and expensive product (£450 cake), for a very specific event (wedding, this was not just a casual dinner delivery), requested with a very specific service (delivery at 6pm, which I suppose was the night of the reception itself). Considering all this and the very competitive market the baker is in, if I were her, I would not think twice to fully refund the cake and apologise profusely. Regardless of what's in the law. But the fact she thinks that refunding not even 1/3 of the price is a generous gesture, I suspect she won't be in the business for long.

JayD

Bite the bullet. Your daughter should apologize profusely, refund in full and wish them a long a happy life together.  "Turn a moment of truth into a moment of magic" ...(Jan Carlzon)  One unhappy customer can make a lot of bad noise, whereas word of mouth from a happy customer can help her business no end.

PHK

wy9n99wwf said:

Yes, I read the OP. However, I suspect that you have mis-read my post, as you are asking whether I have read the OP juxtaposed to adding that 6pm was in the contract, which I had not questioned.

My post was agreeing with another person who had opined that more information would help. It gave a specific example of such further information: that because contract law distinguishes between a “breach” and a “material breach”, it might be useful to know whether the timing had been stated in the contract to be of “utmost importance”. I suspect you are not aware of these legal nuances.

I have not disagreed with anyone who said the supplier was in the wrong, or that her failure might have had a substantially bad effect on the buyer. Had the supplier contacted the buyer as soon as she was aware of her mistake, and explained that the cake would not be delivered until 7pm, and asked whether the buyer would still want to proceed, I think there might have been an interesting conversation.

Ringo90 said:

General_Tactifer said:

The contributors suggesting that a full refund is applicable because the baker "broke the contract" are missing a key point - the customers accepted the cake.  The customers could have rejected the late delivery or negotiated for a discount at the time, but the amended contract (late delivery) has been fulfilled and so there is no "breach of contract" as such.  However, the exact terms of the contract will be important (whether a delivery time has been specified and "of the essence" and what has been agreed regarding late delivery) and, in any case, the baker has to consider reputational damage if they leave the customer feeling badly treated.  Negotiation is necessary to try to ensure both parties can walk away feeling justice has been done.  A full refund seems to be too much to ask, though might be justified IF the late delivery had serious consequences.  More context is needed than that given!

Have you read the OP? The cake was to be delivered at 6pm. So the delivery time HAD been specified. It's not about accepting the cake or not and having a slice of cake in the stomach at the end of the day. There are events where timing is of the essence and weddings are the perfect example. A person is only supposed to marry once. Why should they be left without a cake for their wedding just because SHE made a mistake? The bride and groom were supposed to have a cake at 6pm. They didn't. Hence the breach of contract, plus this surely created a damage/stress to a unique day. You can't be in this business if you can't even keep a diary in order or accept the consequences.

Ringo, I don’t think you appreciate the nuanced legal points that General_Tactifier is making. Contract law is but not as simple as you appear to think

Even if I were to completely accept General_Tactifier points (which I don’t ) there is more to running a business than what contracts say. 

Amongst other things, there’s the matter of recommendation and reputation. There’s also good customer service. The business has made a serious mistake and needs to put it right. Talking of goodwill gestures when a mistake has been made is completely the wrong thing to today. A sincere apology perhaps in a card, refund (minus ingredients cost if they have to) and a gift such as promise of a free anniversary cake or flowers would have given a better impression. 

Ringo90

PHK said:

Even if I were to completely accept General_Tactifier points (which I don’t ) there is more to running a business than what contracts say. 

Amongst other things, there’s the matter of recommendation and reputation. There’s also good customer service. The business has made a serious mistake and needs to put it right. Talking of goodwill gestures when a mistake has been made is completely the wrong thing to today. A sincere apology perhaps in a card, refund (minus ingredients cost if they have to) and a gift such as promise of a free anniversary cake or flowers would have given a better impression. 

Nice to see someone understands what I'm taking about. For a moment I thought I had ended up in a lawyers' forum.

twopenny

One happy customer tells a friend - one unhappy customer tells the world.

If the delay made no difference but some worry then take the cost of ingredients and give back the rest.

If the delay caused rearrangement or disapointment about display etc then refund the lot and chalk it down to experience. It would be worth it to avoid bad publicity which may cost a lot more.

And watch out for bad posts/reviews and respond politely with the fact that they were refunded and enjoyed the cake

kinger101

A partial refund would be fair.  The couple have to hold themselves to account for going for the "just-in-time" option.  Who seriously takes that risk on their wedding day.

nuffznuff

MeteredOut said:

Someone has to say it - the customer wanted to have her cake and eat it!

Can I down vote this?

horsewithnoname

kinger101 said:

A partial refund would be fair.  The couple have to hold themselves to account for going for the "just-in-time" option.  Who seriously takes that risk on their wedding day.

The couple expected the baker to do what she promised, how is it their fault that she is disorganised? Crikey 🙄

ET22

If ive read it right , I dont understand why the delivery time was such a short window but despite this, it was late and is mustve been stressful. I would give a full refund to demonstrate the bride and groom did not have to pay anything for a poor service. A vendors reputation could be negatively affected by  not providing a key item for a wedding or making the bride worry. 

They  probably paid thousands for a wedding and there is no cake or the bride and groom were in a situation where they were worried there would be no cake. 

A full refund because the bakers reputation is at risk and they may lose other peoples future custom.Put it down to experience, a lesson learned.   

LightFlare

An hour late for what ?
a) the agreed delivery time
b) the wedding reception 

depending on which the answer will be different