Product Recall Rights

Loki_Eris

Hi, 

I've recently received a letter requiring me to return a dehumidifier I bought online. This is due to fault which could cause overheating and lead to a fire (no apology given for putting my families safety at risk for the last 13 months!)

After a couple of emails back and forth I've been presented with two options: 

a) To recieve a partial refund of £40 (item was £61).

b) To wait 2 months (hopefully) for a similar model to replace the dehumidifier.

I don't personally see either of these options as being satisfactory. I need to use the dehumidifier every day so can't wait that long for a replacement, but I also can't afford to be left out of pocket if I need to buy my own replacement. I'm struggling to find much  information that relates directly to product recalls and what I have found isn't very detailed. I was wondering if anyone else has been in a similar situation and if there's anything I can legally do in this situation other than what I'm told by the retailer?

Thank you

Aylesbury_Duck

Loki_Eris said:

Hi, 

I've recently received a letter requiring me to return a dehumidifier I bought online. This is due to fault which could cause overheating and lead to a fire (no apology given for putting my families safety at risk for the last 13 months!)

After a couple of emails back and forth I've been presented with two options: 

a) To recieve a partial refund of £40 (item was £61).

b) To wait 2 months (hopefully) for a similar model to replace the dehumidifier.

I don't personally see either of these options as being satisfactory. I need to use the dehumidifier every day so can't wait that long for a replacement, but I also can't afford to be left out of pocket if I need to buy my own replacement. I'm struggling to find much  information that relates directly to product recalls and what I have found isn't very detailed. I was wondering if anyone else has been in a similar situation and if there's anything I can legally do in this situation other than what I'm told by the retailer?

Thank you

I'd take the refund.  A £61 product that's been used for 13 months won't be worth £61 any more, and £40 is not an unreasonable valuation.  Have a look on eBay or similar, I suspect second hand dehumidifiers sell for less than that.  You might try pushing for a little more - ask them for £50 for example - but they may not move.

Legally, they've fulfilled their obligations.  You have what seems a fair offer for the product, or they'll replace with a brand new unit as soon as they can.  If you can't wait, take the £40 and buy a replacement.  You won't be out of pocket because you'll have a brand new dehumidifier.

Why do you need to use a dehumidifier every day?  They're good things but fundamentally they're addressing a symptom rather than a cause.  

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Hello OP

If you was looking from a consumer rights view then a deduction for use is permissible after 6 months, their offer puts the lifespan at 3 years which is pretty poor but if we put the lifespan at 6 years it's only a tenner difference so it's really a question of how much effort you wish to go to in order to get a better settlement figure.

To add if the purchase wasn't with the company who sent the letter consumer rights lie with the retailer and again it's a question of effort vs reward.

If this is a large recall the company are going to want to limit their losses, that isn't your concern obviously but if they have thousands of these to recall they less likely to be generous, but of course no harm in simply asking, on the basis it's a bit short and you feel £50 is more fair, and see what they.

Aylesbury_Duck

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Hello OP

If you was looking from a consumer rights view then a deduction for use is permissible after 6 months, their offer puts the lifespan at 3 years which is pretty poor but if we put the lifespan at 6 years it's only a tenner difference so it's really a question of how much effort you wish to go to in order to get a better settlement figure.

To add if the purchase wasn't with the company who sent the letter consumer rights lie with the retailer and again it's a question of effort vs reward.

If this is a large recall the company are going to want to limit their losses, that isn't your concern obviously but if they have thousands of these to recall they less likely to be generous, but of course no harm in simply asking, on the basis it's a bit short and you feel £50 is more fair, and see what they.

It's possibly because a £61 dehumidifier is right at the bottom end of the price range.  I've had two cheap ones over the years and their performance is poor and they haven't lasted very long - maybe three years of use from September to March?  My current one cost £180 and has lasted seven years so far.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Aylesbury_Duck said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Hello OP

If you was looking from a consumer rights view then a deduction for use is permissible after 6 months, their offer puts the lifespan at 3 years which is pretty poor but if we put the lifespan at 6 years it's only a tenner difference so it's really a question of how much effort you wish to go to in order to get a better settlement figure.

To add if the purchase wasn't with the company who sent the letter consumer rights lie with the retailer and again it's a question of effort vs reward.

If this is a large recall the company are going to want to limit their losses, that isn't your concern obviously but if they have thousands of these to recall they less likely to be generous, but of course no harm in simply asking, on the basis it's a bit short and you feel £50 is more fair, and see what they.

It's possibly because a £61 dehumidifier is right at the bottom end of the price range.  I've had two cheap ones over the years and their performance is poor and they haven't lasted very long - maybe three years of use from September to March?  My current one cost £180 and has lasted seven years so far.

Yes that is fair, I guess it depends on the size, I remember we paid £50 for a tiny one from Argos about 13 years ago for the cupboard under the stairs but if it's a fair sized unit then £61 is likely at the bottom end of the market

Loki_Eris

Thank you for your replies.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Hello OP

If you was looking from a consumer rights view then a deduction for use is permissible after 6 months, their offer puts the lifespan at 3 years which is pretty poor but if we put the lifespan at 6 years it's only a tenner difference so it's really a question of how much effort you wish to go to in order to get a better settlement figure.

To add if the purchase wasn't with the company who sent the letter consumer rights lie with the retailer and again it's a question of effort vs reward.

If this is a large recall the company are going to want to limit their losses, that isn't your concern obviously but if they have thousands of these to recall they less likely to be generous, but of course no harm in simply asking, on the basis it's a bit short and you feel £50 is more fair, and see what they.

I didn't know this, thank you. From my point of view the fact I've had it a year should be irrelevant as the item was faulty the moment I received it (which I had no way of knowing other than it happening to burn my house to the ground) so in these circumstances a full refund would have seemed appropriate to me...

The dehumidifier was Electriq, purchased from Buy It Direct who own the brand.

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Loki_Eris said:

Hi, 

I've recently received a letter requiring me to return a dehumidifier I bought online. This is due to fault which could cause overheating and lead to a fire (no apology given for putting my families safety at risk for the last 13 months!)

After a couple of emails back and forth I've been presented with two options: 

a) To recieve a partial refund of £40 (item was £61).

b) To wait 2 months (hopefully) for a similar model to replace the dehumidifier.

I don't personally see either of these options as being satisfactory. I need to use the dehumidifier every day so can't wait that long for a replacement, but I also can't afford to be left out of pocket if I need to buy my own replacement. I'm struggling to find much  information that relates directly to product recalls and what I have found isn't very detailed. I was wondering if anyone else has been in a similar situation and if there's anything I can legally do in this situation other than what I'm told by the retailer?

Thank you

I'd take the refund.  A £61 product that's been used for 13 months won't be worth £61 any more, and £40 is not an unreasonable valuation.  Have a look on eBay or similar, I suspect second hand dehumidifiers sell for less than that.  You might try pushing for a little more - ask them for £50 for example - but they may not move.

Legally, they've fulfilled their obligations.  You have what seems a fair offer for the product, or they'll replace with a brand new unit as soon as they can.  If you can't wait, take the £40 and buy a replacement.  You won't be out of pocket because you'll have a brand new dehumidifier.

Why do you need to use a dehumidifier every day?  They're good things but fundamentally they're addressing a symptom rather than a cause.  

Thank you, could you tell me where you found the obligations for a company during a product recall please.

I asked if the replacement was brand new and they ignored the question which doesn't seem a good sign. It definitely doesn't come with a new 6 month guarantee and the original one is obviously used up so if it breaks within a week I'd guess there's little I'd be able to do about it?  It's also only a similar dehumidifier rather than an exact replacement which they say has the same specs (but aren't, it seems to be slightly less powerful).

So have they basically got as long as they please to replace the dehumidifier? It seems unfair that they have my money in their bank account while I'm left without the product...

Thanks again

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Loki_Eris said:

From my point of view the fact I've had it a year should be irrelevant as the item was faulty the moment I received it

Diving a little further into the finer points of consumer rights, when seeking a remedy for any goods which don't conform to the contract (i.e have something wrong with them) the regs are always looking at whether they did not conform at the time of delivery.

When your TV breaks down after 9 months, although it worked for 9 months the underlaying cause of say a poor quality component was always present, it just didn't manifest as a visible issue until a later date.

Goods are required to be of satisfactory quality, which includes safety, and you are correct that the goods had this issue from the moment it was in your hands but the regs take the view that within 6 months of delivery a full refund is due and after that a deduction for actual use is permissible.

There is of course no harm in asking for a full refund but there wouldn't be any entitlement under consumer rights*

*There is no doubt additional legistation covering product safety that may or may not place a greater burden on the retailer and/or manufacturer but it's not an area I'm knowledgeable in.

user1977

There are no special legal implications about it being a recall, you're in the same position as you would if the item had simply broken down due to an inherent defect. It's up to the retailer whether to replace or refund, and any refund can take into account the use you've already had.

Aylesbury_Duck

Loki_Eris said:

Thank you for your replies.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Hello OP

If you was looking from a consumer rights view then a deduction for use is permissible after 6 months, their offer puts the lifespan at 3 years which is pretty poor but if we put the lifespan at 6 years it's only a tenner difference so it's really a question of how much effort you wish to go to in order to get a better settlement figure.

To add if the purchase wasn't with the company who sent the letter consumer rights lie with the retailer and again it's a question of effort vs reward.

If this is a large recall the company are going to want to limit their losses, that isn't your concern obviously but if they have thousands of these to recall they less likely to be generous, but of course no harm in simply asking, on the basis it's a bit short and you feel £50 is more fair, and see what they.

I didn't know this, thank you. From my point of view the fact I've had it a year should be irrelevant as the item was faulty the moment I received it (which I had no way of knowing other than it happening to burn my house to the ground) so in these circumstances a full refund would have seemed appropriate to me...

The dehumidifier was Electriq, purchased from Buy It Direct who own the brand.

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Loki_Eris said:

Hi, 

I've recently received a letter requiring me to return a dehumidifier I bought online. This is due to fault which could cause overheating and lead to a fire (no apology given for putting my families safety at risk for the last 13 months!)

After a couple of emails back and forth I've been presented with two options: 

a) To recieve a partial refund of £40 (item was £61).

b) To wait 2 months (hopefully) for a similar model to replace the dehumidifier.

I don't personally see either of these options as being satisfactory. I need to use the dehumidifier every day so can't wait that long for a replacement, but I also can't afford to be left out of pocket if I need to buy my own replacement. I'm struggling to find much  information that relates directly to product recalls and what I have found isn't very detailed. I was wondering if anyone else has been in a similar situation and if there's anything I can legally do in this situation other than what I'm told by the retailer?

Thank you

I'd take the refund.  A £61 product that's been used for 13 months won't be worth £61 any more, and £40 is not an unreasonable valuation.  Have a look on eBay or similar, I suspect second hand dehumidifiers sell for less than that.  You might try pushing for a little more - ask them for £50 for example - but they may not move.

Legally, they've fulfilled their obligations.  You have what seems a fair offer for the product, or they'll replace with a brand new unit as soon as they can.  If you can't wait, take the £40 and buy a replacement.  You won't be out of pocket because you'll have a brand new dehumidifier.

Why do you need to use a dehumidifier every day?  They're good things but fundamentally they're addressing a symptom rather than a cause.  

Thank you, could you tell me where you found the obligations for a company during a product recall please.

I asked if the replacement was brand new and they ignored the question which doesn't seem a good sign. It definitely doesn't come with a new 6 month guarantee and the original one is obviously used up so if it breaks within a week I'd guess there's little I'd be able to do about it?  It's also only a similar dehumidifier rather than an exact replacement which they say has the same specs (but aren't, it seems to be slightly less powerful).

So have they basically got as long as they please to replace the dehumidifier? It seems unfair that they have my money in their bank account while I'm left without the product...

Thanks again

I'll answer the bolded bits in turn:

It's not irrelevant.  The recall sounds like it's for an inherent design fault that could lead to the unit failing, however it's worked perfectly well for 13 months.  The inherent fault hasn't hindered the machine's purpose or stopped you deriving value from it.  I've owned a car that had a recall for the airbags a couple of years after purchase.  I wouldn't have had the option to return the car for a full refund, even though the airbag fault in question might have caused some secondary injuries in the event of an accident.  Now clearly this would be a very different situation if the fault had caused a fire and caused damage, but it hasn't.  

You can search for product recall obligations to see the results.  I think the company in this case is fulfilling them.  They've told you of the fault, told you to stop using the item and offered two remedies.  I didn't spend ages looking but I didn't see anything mandating a full refund in any circumstances.

That's why I suggested taking the offer of a partial refund.  It's the only way you get some certainty.  If you elect to wait for a replacement of unknown specification then it isn't unfair, because they've given you an 'instant' alternative.

Alderbank

Loki_Eris said:

Thank you for your replies.

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Loki_Eris said:

Hi, 

I've recently received a letter requiring me to return a dehumidifier I bought online. This is due to fault which could cause overheating and lead to a fire (no apology given for putting my families safety at risk for the last 13 months!)

After a couple of emails back and forth I've been presented with two options: 

a) To recieve a partial refund of £40 (item was £61).

b) To wait 2 months (hopefully) for a similar model to replace the dehumidifier.

I don't personally see either of these options as being satisfactory. I need to use the dehumidifier every day so can't wait that long for a replacement, but I also can't afford to be left out of pocket if I need to buy my own replacement. I'm struggling to find much  information that relates directly to product recalls and what I have found isn't very detailed. I was wondering if anyone else has been in a similar situation and if there's anything I can legally do in this situation other than what I'm told by the retailer?

Thank you

I'd take the refund.  A £61 product that's been used for 13 months won't be worth £61 any more, and £40 is not an unreasonable valuation.  Have a look on eBay or similar, I suspect second hand dehumidifiers sell for less than that.  You might try pushing for a little more - ask them for £50 for example - but they may not move.

Legally, they've fulfilled their obligations.  You have what seems a fair offer for the product, or they'll replace with a brand new unit as soon as they can.  If you can't wait, take the £40 and buy a replacement.  You won't be out of pocket because you'll have a brand new dehumidifier.

Why do you need to use a dehumidifier every day?  They're good things but fundamentally they're addressing a symptom rather than a cause.  

Thank you, could you tell me where you found the obligations for a company during a product recall please.

I asked if the replacement was brand new and they ignored the question which doesn't seem a good sign. It definitely doesn't come with a new 6 month guarantee and the original one is obviously used up so if it breaks within a week I'd guess there's little I'd be able to do about it?  It's also only a similar dehumidifier rather than an exact replacement which they say has the same specs (but aren't, it seems to be slightly less powerful).

So have they basically got as long as they please to replace the dehumidifier? It seems unfair that they have my money in their bank account while I'm left without the product...

Thanks again

It's not very clear from your posts, but is this an ElectriQ CD10L Dehumidifier with serial number 2209, 2301 or 2302 bought from Appliances Direct?

If so the product recall notice is here
 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66c49b2167dbaeb97a13e455/2408-0029-product-recall-Electriq-dehumidifier.pdf

It says the product presents a risk of fire as there may be a manufacturing defect on the circuit board.  Owners should unplug and stop using this product immediately. 

The legal obligations on a company discovering one of its products could be dangerous to the public is to inform a Government department using a form.
From this point there is no 'one size fits all' procedure.
The company and Govt dept will discuss the best action to take to maintain public safety, following various published pieces of guidance. These actions might involve instructions to the public. The actions are to do with maintaining public safety rather than any commercial considerations like refunds.

@Aylesbury_Duck observes that if the product recall notice says the product cannot be used then it is in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015. The CRA says you are entitled to a replacement or partial refund.
The replacement does not have to be new but must be similar to the one you bought. Any refund can take into account of the use you had. 
It's normal for guarantees on any product to run from the date of purchase. So if you buy an appliance with a 5 year guarantee and it has to be replaced after 2 years, you have 3 years left on the guarantee.

Edited to add:
Under the CRA they don't have as long as they please to replace it.
The delay should not be unreasonable and should not cause you significant inconvenience.

If they have to ship newly-made units from China via the Red Sea then it will take some time.

What is your personal inconvenience? Why do you need to use it daily? If you can't wait you should be able to take the refund and put it towards buying a safer one