New landlord (me) - some queries

RHemmings

Grumpy_chap said:

ButterCheese said:

RHemmings said:

I wouldn't say it's unfair to ask for the additional £700, and your tenant may agree. But, I think this is the kind of thing that could cause concerns for the tenant - e.g. will you ask for other sums of money in the future. 

Yes good point.  It was them who suggested paying extra for a roller door, but reading other comments it does pose a potential problem, and I also don't want to set a precedent i.e. I have no intention of improving the property out of my own pocket when I'm not living there.  I will speak to them about it and suggest that we sign an agreement that I have to buy their share of the door from them if they move out

Well, that seems a bit of an odd idea - I mean the T will move out, so you will have to buy their "share" of the door.  The only unknown is the timing of when you have to buy that share of the door.
What price will you buy that share of the door at? 
The current £700?
The £700 less a proportionate depreciation based on expected life of a door?

What if the relationship is soured by the time the T leaves?
It may all be very well and good now having an agreement that says the T will pay £700 for the door and the LL will buy that door back at "X" tenths of the original value depending on how many years have passed, so "X" starts at "10" and reduces to "0" after ten years.
If the T is an awkward so-and-so when leaving and says they want the full £700 back, or gets silly and literally cuts 40% off the door to take with them, you'll be left with 60% of a door and very little you can do about it...

Agreed. They can pay a bit for a better door if they want, but it should be clear that the door 100% belongs to the house, and they have no ownership of it. 

ThisIsWeird

RHemmings said:

Agreed. They can pay a bit for a better door if they want, but it should be clear that the door 100% belongs to the house, and they have no ownership of it. 

If you were a tenant, RHemmings, and suggested to your LL you'd contribute ~70% extra towards what is clearly a more practical garage door, how would you respond to your LL's three possible options;

1) No.

2) Ok, but it's MY door - 100%.

3) Ok, and should you leave within X years, I'd refund a diminishing proportion.

Granted that 2 is fair enough, but Butter ain't yer normal LL :-)

But, fair do's - option 3 is entirely, er, optional.

saajan_12

ButterCheese said:

RHemmings said:

I wouldn't say it's unfair to ask for the additional £700, and your tenant may agree. But, I think this is the kind of thing that could cause concerns for the tenant - e.g. will you ask for other sums of money in the future. 

Yes good point.  It was them who suggested paying extra for a roller door, but reading other comments it does pose a potential problem, and I also don't want to set a precedent i.e. I have no intention of improving the property out of my own pocket when I'm not living there.  I will speak to them about it and suggest that we sign an agreement that I have to buy their share of the door from them if they move out

Well they probably will leave at some point, even if its in 15 years.. would you still pay for it then? 

I would have suggested if the LL serves a no-fault notice in the next [2] years (or whatever) then they'll back 50% of the cost, else nothing. You don't want to incentivise the tenant choosing to leave themselves or breaching terms to push you to evict for cause. However that'll likely soon become a thing of the past anyway, so  probably little point in getting into the weeds. 

RHemmings

ThisIsWeird said:

RHemmings said:

Agreed. They can pay a bit for a better door if they want, but it should be clear that the door 100% belongs to the house, and they have no ownership of it. 

If you were a tenant, RHemmings, and suggested to your LL you'd contribute ~70% extra towards what is clearly a more practical garage door, how would you respond to your LL's three possible options;

1) No.

2) Ok, but it's MY door - 100%.

3) Ok, and should you leave within X years, I'd refund a diminishing proportion.

Granted that 2 is fair enough, but Butter ain't yer normal LL :-)

But, fair do's - option 3 is entirely, er, optional.

I would think that 2 is the correct option. But, I would never ever even think of contributing £700 for a door. I did pay £9 for two apple trees from Aldi, and they fully became property of the landlord. But, that's an extremely different situation due to the cost being orders of magnitude different.  When a landlord refused to replace the washing machine, I bought one. But, that's mobile and I still have it now. Again, a very different situation. 

Personally I would not expect 3 and would be very, very, surprised if a landlord suggested it. 

ButterCheese

ThisIsWeird said:

You do need to increase your rent, but it would be unfair to bring it anywhere close to 'market' in one swoop,

Thanks for such an in-depth reply.  This is what I was pretty much thinking (now I've slept on it).  They do appreciate the chance I've given them, but they also keep the house immaculately and have made some very tasteful changes to the garden at their own expense (with my permission).  So I am happy to have them as tenants, purely because they keep the house nice and they only complain when something has actually broken.

But yes, it is a business not a charity.  The house is mortgage free but I have a mortgage on my (larger) new house which also costs a bomb to run, and of course those costs are rising.  So I will prepare some examples of similar 3 bed properties (with a driveway and garage) so they know where I'm coming from.  I think a 5% increase per year (£42 this year) is quite fair. 

Re: the garage door, I've actually fixed it. It works (and is electric).  So I don't actually have to do anything now but it does look old and could stick/break again at any point in the future.  So I'll present the quote for a new like-for-like which I'm happy to pay for, and the quote for the more expensive roller door which I will invite them to pay towards if they want it.  They are desperate to stay for as long as they can, so I don't think me buying back the door if they leave would be an issue, but I will take that on the chin should it occur. 

ThisIsWeird

Sounds like an ideal arrangement, Butter

blackshirtuk

ButterCheese said:

ThisIsWeird said:

You do need to increase your rent, but it would be unfair to bring it anywhere close to 'market' in one swoop,

Thanks for such an in-depth reply.  This is what I was pretty much thinking (now I've slept on it).  They do appreciate the chance I've given them, but they also keep the house immaculately and have made some very tasteful changes to the garden at their own expense (with my permission).  So I am happy to have them as tenants, purely because they keep the house nice and they only complain when something has actually broken.

But yes, it is a business not a charity.  The house is mortgage free but I have a mortgage on my (larger) new house which also costs a bomb to run, and of course those costs are rising.  So I will prepare some examples of similar 3 bed properties (with a driveway and garage) so they know where I'm coming from.  I think a 5% increase per year (£42 this year) is quite fair. 

Re: the garage door, I've actually fixed it. It works (and is electric).  So I don't actually have to do anything now but it does look old and could stick/break again at any point in the future.  So I'll present the quote for a new like-for-like which I'm happy to pay for, and the quote for the more expensive roller door which I will invite them to pay towards if they want it.  They are desperate to stay for as long as they can, so I don't think me buying back the door if they leave would be an issue, but I will take that on the chin should it occur. 

I would be saying along the lines of 

We will install the roller garage door as requested without any contribution but we will be raising your rent to £1050 in line with the local market which will allow us to recoup the extra expense.

ButterCheese

blackshirtuk said:

 

I would be saying along the lines of 

We will install the roller garage door as requested without any contribution but we will be raising your rent to £1050 in line with the local market which will allow us to recoup the extra expense.

Yes that makes sense but for the tenants a rise of £200/month is very extreme.  My plan is to slowly raise it up to market value to give them a chance to adjust their living habits accordingly.  I've gone from 850 to 900 this year (and given them 3 months notice) so next year I shall do the same.

ThisIsWeird

Since you actually fixed the existing garage door, there is obviously no onus on you to act on it at all for the moment. If you wish to delay a decision on it, then you could tell them an 'upgrade' with their contribution is certainly something you'll consider when it does come to need replacing. You can add that 'finding £1k at the moment for something that isn't essential is a bit tricky....'
(Mind you, they'll probably nobble it then!)

saajan_12

ButterCheese said:

blackshirtuk said:

 

I would be saying along the lines of 

We will install the roller garage door as requested without any contribution but we will be raising your rent to £1050 in line with the local market which will allow us to recoup the extra expense.

Yes that makes sense but for the tenants a rise of £200/month is very extreme.  My plan is to slowly raise it up to market value to give them a chance to adjust their living habits accordingly.  I've gone from 850 to 900 this year (and given them 3 months notice) so next year I shall do the same.

The market will also probably run away from you then by that time, so you'll always be ~£200 under market. Even if f in a few years rents don't rise, it'll be harder to justify your gradual increases even if still under market when the headlines say prices are going down. 

Plus its not extreme if you're including an upgrade to roller door, which is something they wanted. Can always give them the option, eg £x increase with the door as is or £y increase with the new roller door.