New-style (contributions based) ESA, losing job and getting holiday pay

pinkteapot

Permanent PAYE job with monthly pay. Been off work sick continuously since August 2023. New-style (contributions-based) ESA claim started 15 April 2024 when SSP ended; I'm in the Support Group. 

I'll imminently be dismissed on capability grounds and will get a lump-sum payment for accrued holiday. I'll declare these facts to DWP. Questions: 

(1) Will I lose any ESA (a week? a month?) due to the holiday payment? It'd be over the earnings limit whether they spread it out over the month in which its received or treat it as one week's earnings. But again, I've been off work throughout. 

(2) More importantly, will the payment stop my ESA claim and will I have to re-apply? (Very scared of losing the ESA income going forward) 

Separately, I've got myself worried about other payments from my employer. When I tell DWP about the above, should I also declare the below? 

(3) April 2024: Paid for the part-month before claim started. Payment date 30 April (payroll date). ESA claim started 15 April. So, money received after claim started for period prior to the claim. Surely that must happen when ESA claims start mid-month, but should I have declared it? 

(4) May to September 2024: No salary or SSP received. However, employer kept paying me £13 per month (amount not a typo) first aider allowance. It's so small I just haven't thought about it with all the health worries going on, but I'm now worried it'll mess up my claim.

When I tell them about the job loss and final holiday payment, should I list and explain the other payments above, send all the payslips, and let them make sure my claim is all straight?

And could #3 and #4 mean they stop my claim and I have to re-apply? Again, my biggest worry is losing the ESA payments going forward as they're my only income now.

Robbie64

As your ESA is based on your NI contributions, your ESA won't be affected by any payments you receive when your employment ends. The only income that would affect your ESA is if you were to receive a pension in excess of £85 per week which isn't the case here.

As far as I am aware, you only need to inform the DWP that you have stopped work. There's no need to report things like holiday pay, last wages etc https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-style-employment-and-support-allowance-detailed-guide#after-your-claim-is-assessed

Depending on your financial circumstances you could also consider claiming Universal Credit. This would take account of any savings you have, whether you live alone or have a partner and also any income you have, which would include your ESA. As you are in the Support Group of ESA you might be entitled to some UC each month, dependant on your financial circumstances..

pinkteapot

Thank you for the reassurance! There’s a confusing mixture of advice online about whether they need to know about the payments. There was a thread from someone who’s on contributions-based, but got a fraud letter from DWP because HMRC had informed them about payments from the employer, which were for holiday. So I wondered if it’s best to tell them, even if it makes no difference? 

I’m not eligible for UC due to savings. I know I can claim if we end up under the savings threshold in future (due to losing my salary so having to use them, not due to deliberate deprivation of assets!). 

I’m in that gap between too-sick-to-work but I don’t think I meet PIP descriptors, so ESA is all I get. At least it’s something though and slows down the savings erosion. 

Spoonie_Turtle

pinkteapot said:

 I’m in that gap between too-sick-to-work but I don’t think I meet PIP descriptors, 

There is definitely a gap that many people fall into here, but also a lot of people think they fall into that gap when really they would qualify for PIP because there don't understand how PIP is assessed.

To work out which of those situations applies to you:
Have you read up on how PIP is assessed, how the descriptors are decided (including reliably - safely, to an excellent standard, repeatedly, and in a timely manner)?  Or have you looked at the descriptors alone and been put off because you technically can physically do all of those activities in isolation?

pinkteapot

Spoonie_Turtle said:

pinkteapot said:

 I’m in that gap between too-sick-to-work but I don’t think I meet PIP descriptors, 

There is definitely a gap that many people fall into here, but also a lot of people think they fall into that gap when really they would qualify for PIP because there don't understand how PIP is assessed.

To work out which of those situations applies to you:
Have you read up on how PIP is assessed, how the descriptors are decided (including reliably - safely, to an excellent standard, repeatedly, and in a timely manner)?  Or have you looked at the descriptors alone and been put off because you technically can physically do all of those activities in isolation?

Probably the latter, to be honest. I can’t always do the things, and I can’t do them repeatedly within a day, but I can do them.

I have read a fair bit about it, but I don’t really understand how ‘repeatedly’ is assessed because I’ve read stories of e.g. someone walking into the assessment room unaided and therefore scoring zero for being able to mobilise. 

Basically, all the horror stories about the assessment process have played a big part in putting me off! But I do genuinely think I’d be borderline, more likely not eligible than eligible. 

Spoonie_Turtle

What's important to know is what the law says about it, not horror stories from very flawed assessments.  The assessment is ultimately irrelevant because if the initial decision based on the assessment is wrong, you can challenge it and if necessary appeal to the independent tribunal who will have a look at how you score against the descriptors, not simply looking at what the assessor said like the first DWP decision does.

These pages might help

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/help-with-your-claim/how-decisions-are-made/

The links to help with each question/activity https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/help-with-your-claim/fill-in-form-pip/

(Mainly the first part) https://pipinfo.net/issues/reliably

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria

Please don't feel any pressure to read them soon and come back with a response, this is just information for you to have a look at and consider at your own pace whenever you might feel up to it.  Obviously if you have any questions/concerns after reading whenever, we'll be here to help

huckster

With New Style ESA, you have to inform ESA if you are working at all and that means physically being at work.  After sick pay has run out any previous earnings and holiday pay from when a claimant was working before the ESA was made are not relevant.

It is possible for an ESA claimant to return to working and the ESA benefit not being affected, This would be under Permitted Work rules. Work hours must be below 16 hours per week and earnings must be under £183.50 per week.  And it is necessary to advise ESA and complete a Permitted Work (PW1) form that they would send to you.

And ANY regular pension income must be advised to ESA and ESA will ignore the first £85 per week.

pinkteapot

Thanks. I have not returned to work at any point. Payments have been for accrued holiday and a very small extra allowance I had on top of salary which didn’t stop when salary did. No work done though. Off sick throughout.

I’m glad the payments won’t affect the ESA, so it sounds like I don’t need to tell DWP about them, but then I worry that when they see (from HMRC) that I received various payments that they might think I worked without telling them. Hence wondering if it was better to explain the payments now (even if they don’t do anything with that info) rather than get in trouble later… 

Not in receipt of any pensions.