spots/mould on the solid wall!

fluffymuffy

Recently replaced the windows with nice airtight ones?

Jellynailer

EssexHebridean said:

 if criticism is being levelled it is going to be because the advice is poor, misguided, or misleading

I have not given any advice to the OP)  I have only suggested what the problem might be and/or ways the cause could be pinpointed.  I asked questions and saying "It is hard to respond usefully without the above information except to tell you about my experience of dealing with a damp spot problem". 

Others have given suggestions as to what the problem might be = condensation; penetrating or rising damp but the mould spots are not symptoms of any of these - not even on commercial sites that can exagerate in order to get business. 

Section62 said:

  ...if I see advice being given which is seriously wrong or misleading I'll point it out, whoever is posting, because bad advice is worse than no advice....

It is difficult to understand how you've drawn the conclusion that the possible causes identified by other forum members don't fit the symptoms

I posted links giving the (expert but non-commercial) source of my suggestion showing 1. symptoms of different types of damp and 2. the nature of and dangers of black mould.  Have these sites been visited by anyone? 

Having said the above, I am pleased to note that others have started to ask questions too and one ThisIsWeird has even posted a link for information not previously known to any of us athough it has confused me because it refers to a 1950s detached house whereas for this thread the OP cites a 90 year old house and the pictures show that it is clearly not detached.I will leave it up to others to ponder and comment on this contradiction and keep my thoughts to myself.  

To end my involvement in this thread, I wish to a) emphasise that the quality of information supplied at the outset of a thread or in answer to questions is crucial to working out the nature of the problem to be resolved and ...

b) owning up to failing to explain that the damp spots on my wall were checked by a damp expert before I undertook my remedial work not knowing about products for sealing prior to emulsion.  I am now clear that the best way to check whether the work I did has been effective is to look at the area above the wall I treated and it shows not a sign of any damp.  End of story.  Over to the rest of you to sort the OP out. 

Section62

Jellynailer said:

EssexHebridean said:

 if criticism is being levelled it is going to be because the advice is poor, misguided, or misleading

I have not given any advice to the OP)  I have only suggested what the problem might be and/or ways the cause could be pinpointed.

....

On this forum the BiB is what we would call "advice".  You also talked about painting the walls with gloss and then emulsion paint as a possible cure -

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81015700/#Comment_81015700

That is what we mean by advice which is 'poor, misguided, or misleading'.  Applying gloss paint to a damp wall is a really bad idea.

Jellynailer said:

Others have given suggestions as to what the problem might be = condensation; penetrating or rising damp but the mould spots are not symptoms of any of these - not even on commercial sites that can exagerate in order to get business.

It isn't clear how you read those links and came to the conclusion [black] mould spots aren't potential symptoms of condensation/penetrating/rising damp.  Damp is damp.  Mould likes damp environments. Damp walls increase humidity in living spaces and encourage mould growth.

Jellynailer said:

Section62 said:

  ...if I see advice being given which is seriously wrong or misleading I'll point it out, whoever is posting, because bad advice is worse than no advice....

It is difficult to understand how you've drawn the conclusion that the possible causes identified by other forum members don't fit the symptoms

I posted links giving the (expert but non-commercial) source of my suggestion showing 1. symptoms of different types of damp and 2. the nature of and dangers of black mould.  Have these sites been visited by anyone?

Both of the sites you linked to are "commercial" - each is selling a product in their own way.  I check all links - unless obviously scam sites - before commenting. Nothing on either link tells me that what sujsuj is experiencing isn't a potential consequence of penetrating damp.

Jellynailer said:

Having said the above, I am pleased to note that others have started to ask questions too and one ThisIsWeird has even posted a link for information not previously known to any of us athough it has confused me because it refers to a 1950s detached house whereas for this thread the OP cites a 90 year old house and the pictures show that it is clearly not detached.I will leave it up to others to ponder and comment on this contradiction and keep my thoughts to myself.

I think the link you mention was posted by me.  sujsuj is a regular visitor to the forum and I have a good memory.  I remembered he has previously had multiple drainage/guttering/flooding issues.  As soon as he posted pictures of a potential damp issue my first thought was that this may well be another manifestation of the problems he had before - the information on the link was previously known to me, and I think to TIW, even if he momentarily forgot.

But if you are now in a place where you are willing to argue with sujsuj about whether his house is detached or not then perhaps your final words "End of story.  Over to the rest of you to sort the OP out." might be the wisest choice. There is nothing in the pictures which "clearly" establishes whether the subject property is detached or not.

sujsuj - if you are now posting about a different house to the one you have posted about before then please let us know, as that may make a difference to the advice you get.

FreeBear

Section62 said:

Jellynailer said:

EssexHebridean said:

 if criticism is being levelled it is going to be because the advice is poor, misguided, or misleading

I have not given any advice to the OP)  I have only suggested what the problem might be and/or ways the cause could be pinpointed.

....

On this forum the BiB is what we would call "advice".  You also talked about painting the walls with gloss and then emulsion paint as a possible cure -

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81015700/#Comment_81015700

That is what we mean by advice which is 'poor, misguided, or misleading'.  Applying gloss paint to a damp wall is a really bad idea.

Solid brick walls with a lime plaster should not be painted with a gloss paint. It destroys the ability of the wall to naturally absorb & release moisture. It can also trap moisture within the wall, leading to bigger problems in the future.

Old buildings need to be treated with respect, and appropriate materials used in repair & maintenance. Most modern paints are not suitable.

Jellynailer

Oh dear - I meant mould not rot.  It is very late for a person in my advanced years who does have experience of dealing with all types of damp in some of the 24 homes that I have lived in either in the UK or abroad.  One even had dry rot but nobody raised this one. 

Jellynailer

Some sleep at last after my roof was fixed yesterday has done wonders for my brain viz:

I have been trying to find sources of information for the ad nausea opinions about my posts re use of gloss paint mostly to no avail but I have found an advice site and await the response to my query.

I have also re-examined the 3 photos that the OP attached to the first post.  If everyone does the same you will see a) no evidence that the walls are external walls or that the spots got up to the ceiling; and b) in the second two photos there are spots on the skirting boards so a basic damp metre costing less than £10 would detect damp here.

While we wait for enlightenment from the OP,  I have been trying to find sources of information for the ad nausea opinions about my posts re use of gloss paint mostly to no avail but I have found an advice site and await the response to my query.

 

I have also re-examined the 3 photos that the OP attached to the first post.  If everyone does the same you will see a) no evidence that the walls are external walls or that the spots go up to the ceiling; and b) in the second two photos there are spots on the skirting boards so a basic damp metre costing less than £10 would detect damp here.

Lastly, black mould can look grey or greenish.

Section62

[Quoted post removed by Forum Team]

There is a small chance sujsuj is asking about a different house to the one he's asked about previously (although they do look remarkably similar in construction), but the pictures he has posted neither show a house which is "derelict" nor one which is clearly "attached".  There are some visual cues - such as the fence and rainwater downpipe - which are familiar to people used to semi/terrace property, but the existence of a rainwater downpipe and a fence isn't sufficient evidence to prove your implied assertion that the OP might be less than truthful in describing his property as 'detached'.

As some of us have been discussing in the thread, it appears the vertical line may demark an extension to the original house, rather than a junction between two separate properties.  If we now all wait for sujsuj to confirm the property type then it will avoid this pointless speculation/discussion.

Jellynailer said:

I have been trying to find sources of information for the ad nausea opinions about my posts re use of gloss paint mostly to no avail but I have found an advice site and await the response to my query.

I have also re-examined the 3 photos that the OP attached to the first post.  If everyone does the same you will see a) no evidence that the walls are external walls or that the spots got up to the ceiling; and b) in the second two photos there are spots on the skirting boards so a basic damp metre costing less than £10 would detect damp here.

While we wait for enlightenment from the OP,  I have been trying to find sources of information for the ad nausea opinions about my posts re use of gloss paint mostly to no avail but I have found an advice site and await the response to my query.

 

I have also re-examined the 3 photos that the OP attached to the first post.  If everyone does the same you will see a) no evidence that the walls are external walls or that the spots go up to the ceiling; and b) in the second two photos there are spots on the skirting boards so a basic damp metre costing less than £10 would detect damp here.

Hopefully you'll provide a link when you get a response on that advice site.  Although this is also an advice site and several people with extensive experience of property construction and maintenance have explained why coating damp walls with gloss paint as a damp 'cure' is not a good idea.

In the spirit of a well known saying 'opinions are like..., everyone has one", you can ask on the internet whether painting a wall with gloss paint to deal with damp is a good idea and someone will say "yes".  But that doesn't mean it is correct or sensible advice.

In terms of your latest tangents -

a) The 'evidence' for the wall being an external one is in the text, not the interior photo.  sujsuj says it is the "back wall".  sujsuj is also a sensible person and wouldn't post external pictures of the wall if it wasn't the same wall. The way this forum works means we have to trust posters to be telling the truth and work on the basis their intention is good.  I don't understand why you would be examining sujsuj's pictures to try to prove this isn't an external wall.  It isn't helpful to anyone - like your 'derelict' comment about his home.

Whether the spots go up to the ceiling or not isn't particularly significant.  Damp spreads, water vapour convects.  Mould can form on walls some distance away from the root cause of the damp.

b) You seem to miss the point about the damp meter.  sujsuj doesn't need a damp meter to tell him there is a problem.  The gutter is defective and needs to be fixed regardless of any damp meter readings.  The wall is showing evidence of likely damp-induced staining or mould.  That can be seen without needing to buy a damp meter.

A sub-£10 damp meter will probably tell you there is damp when there isn't, and might be so inaccurate as to make it impossible to map where the damp is worst.  Like cheap 'voltage testers', cheap damp meters are not much use, and in the wrong hands can be dangerous to health and/or bank balances.

The advice to sujsuj is simple and straightforward and doesn't need to be complicated by the various tangents you are throwing his way in this thread.  He simply needs to get the gutter fixed and then see what happens to the wall.  Anything else is potentially just throwing money away on a pointless and potentially damaging waste of time and money.

ThisIsWeird

SujSuj, could you confirm/answer, please:

1) By 'first' floor, you do mean 'upstairs'? (Edit - soz, you have confirmed it's upstairs).

2) Which walls are affected - your pic shows two? Where are they in that room? Could you post a wider shot so's we can see the extent of the affected areas? One will be an internal wall - how far along that wall, in particular, do the spots appear? What about on the other side of that internal wall?

3) Does the window in that room also have condensation forming on it?

ThisIsWeird

Jellynailer said:

Some sleep at last after my roof was fixed yesterday has done wonders for my brain viz:

I have been trying to find sources of information for the ad nausea opinions about my posts re use of gloss paint mostly to no avail but I have found an advice site and await the response to my query.

I have also re-examined the 3 photos that the OP attached to the first post.  If everyone does the same you will see a) no evidence that the walls are external walls or that the spots got up to the ceiling; and b) in the second two photos there are spots on the skirting boards so a basic damp metre costing less than £10 would detect damp here.

While we wait for enlightenment from the OP,  I have been trying to find sources of information for the ad nausea opinions about my posts re use of gloss paint mostly to no avail but I have found an advice site and await the response to my query.

I have also re-examined the 3 photos that the OP attached to the first post.  If everyone does the same you will see a) no evidence that the walls are external walls or that the spots go up to the ceiling; and b) in the second two photos there are spots on the skirting boards so a basic damp metre costing less than £10 would detect damp here.

Lastly, black mould can look grey or greenish.

That comes across as a bit shouty, Jellynailer.

Believe me, I know what it's like to be corrected by S62 - you get used to it when it happens often.  

Very occasionally we reach an impasse, but usually he's simply right :-(

EssexHebridean

Further question to the OP - in one of the photos posted we can see an item of furniture - is that the position that item has been in for a while, and are the spots more intense behind the item, and radiating out from that upwards in decreasing intensity? (Sorry - clunky wording, hopefully you can get what I am asking!) Without wishing to bring “unrelated issues” into the thread, we had similar spots to this in our old flat - and know from experience that often the best cure and control method is to move furniture well out from affected areas to increase ventilation. Not always possible, I know, but certainly not a bad starting point. If the wall generally is damp, then spots may have started showing where there is less airflow - and furniture blocks airflow.