Is my meter an RTS meter ?

Burntwalnut

Hello all, Can anyone tell me how I can visually / physically tell if my electric meter is RTS controlled? Supplier says it is but there is no seperate teleswitch box and no markings on meter referencing RTS of any kind. It is an SSE installed Economy 10 North Tariff meter certified in 2004 and installed in 2008. Printed on top left corner is muti - rate meter. Type says M110A03 but I can't find reference to this online. I have some doubt that meter is RTS controlled as the system it supplies has no need for timed switch overs. In fact the second live feed out of meter has never been used and is terminated immediately at a switch. The Economy 10 meter was installed as a means of getting cheaper electricity for a house heated with an electric boiler controlled by individual room stats which could be timed for any time of day (peak or off peak) Sorry for the long post but I am not yet allowed to upload photos. For anyone that is willing to look or reply, my meter looks identical to the grey meter shown on the citizens advice website showing pictures of 2 types of RTS meters. The only differences I can see are meter type, mine says M110A03 and CAB meter type starts with a K. As stated above my meter has printed in top left corner multi-rate meter and the CAB pictured meter says radio telemeter north, also SSE. Also if you look at the 2 small square windows at the top of the meter marked A and B on the CAB web picture, these are just grey plastic tabs on my meter that look like they could be broken out if the windows were needed for something. Many thanks in advance for your thoughts. FYI my current supplier will not replace my meter with another E10 meter but more importantly have no engineers or third party willing to come to my area so hence the need to find out what meter type I have as if it needs changed out then I will need to change supplier and there aren't many that fully support E10

Gerry1

Welcome to the forum.

If it looks like the meter shown by CA then it's a Radio Tele Switch.

Burntwalnut said:

The Economy 10 meter was installed as a means of getting cheaper electricity for a house heated with an electric boiler controlled by individual room stats which could be timed for any time of day (peak or off peak)

What are your E10 hours?

Does the boiler have a timer or can it heat up 24/7?

A plain electric boiler is just about the most expensive form of heating you can have, unless it's a heatstore.  Even worse, if it heats up at any time because it isn't isn't switched by the meter, it seems doubtful whether E10 will work out cheaper: the E10 day rate is even more expensive than single rate.

E10 is usually used with Night Storage Heaters, the old-style Box of Bricks ones, or underfloor (slab) heating.  By modern standards both of these are low capacity and need an afternoon and late evening top up.  They were popular in the 70s when electricity was cheap as chips.  But if you have no storage, it seems strange to have a two-rate tariff.  It may be cheaper during the evening but you're likely to miss out on the cheap overnight rate.  Have you done the sums to see whether single rate works out cheaper?

If you own the property, can't get gas and intend to stay a reasonable time it might be worth considering a change to High Heat Retention NSHs such as Dimplex Quantum.  Not cheap to buy, but much cheaper to run, and likely to make the property fetch a better price when it's time to sell.  Many potential buyers would run a mile if they found out it had an electric boiler !

Burntwalnut

Hi, TPR is 0430hrs - 0730hrs # 1330hrs-1630hrs and 2030hrs - 0030hrs giving 10 hours of off peak. No gas where I live (Shetland). pre pandemic / conflict electric price was 7.5ppkhw and I was getting 85% -90% of all usage on the cheap rate so costs were comparitively low. The boiler fed a wet underfloor heating system and could be controlled by individual programmable room stats but when prices were forecast to rise in 2022 I had the electric boiler replaced with an air source heat pump. Neither heating system has relied on the E10 meter to dictate operating times. That has always been via the programmable room stats or now by the heat pump control system. As stated in my origional post the second live feed from E10 meter has never been used. It simply terminates in a switch directly after leaving E10 / multirate meter effectively giving you a 2 rate meter supplying your whole house so every thing electrical in the house is operated on the off peak times given above, not just heating or hot water. My question is how do I physically tell by looking at meter if it is RTS controlled? My supplier says it will be as all those type of meters are RTS meters but that is not scientific enough for me. I know several people who have the same heating set up and their meter is not RTS controlled. I just want to know how I can confirm this myself. Cheers

Burntwalnut

Oh and yes I have looked at a single rate. The single rate unit needed to match my current costs would be around 22ppkwh for the 8300kwh used per year and the best available rate I've seen is about 24.5ppkwh which would be around £300 per year more expensive than my E10 rates but it's hard to evaluate as prices change every 3 months

Scot_39

What are smart meter comms like in Shetland

Can you get something like Octopus Cosy for your ASHP ?

There may even be come mileage in things like Agile locally given extended Viking wind farm now online (last Aug iirc).

And zonal pricing might throw everything in the air.

Gerry1

Here's the meter.

Looks like it should have been replaced six years ago.

The 2 grey wires from the bottom right of meter are the live feeds with the blue being the neutral. They feed in to the black switch to the right with red breaker buttons but the grey wire that goes in to the right side of the switch (and would normally feed storage heaters and or hot water tank during off peak times) terminates in the switch, therefore the remaining feed supplies the whole house meaning electrical outlets, lighting, hot water and heating all benefit from off peak times and rates. Also meaning you can boost heating and hot water at any time even if it were in peak time.

Burntwalnut

Not sure. I haven't heard anything good or bad regarding smart network coverage. Only negative I've heard was from people who have had their THTC or E7 traditional meters replaced with a smart E7 meter which feeds storage heaters and now they have no afternoon boost which means the heaters have lost most of their heat by night and can't heat house well enough. My supplier will not come to Shetland to replace meter and even if they did would only replace my E10 meter which has 3 off peak periods spread throughout the day with an E7 meter with off peak 0000hrs - 0700hrs which would be useless for me. Happy times 

Gerry1

Burntwalnut said:

My supplier will not come to Shetland to replace meter and even if they did would only replace my E10 meter which has 3 off peak periods spread throughout the day with an E7 meter with off peak 0000hrs - 0700hrs which would be useless for me.

@Rosie1001 managed to get EDF to give her an E10 supply with a new smart meter.  Alternatively, Octopus Snug might be suitable.

Burntwalnut

Yes Gerry, looking at chart it should have been replaced or recertified in Feb 2019 but I would be happy if I could have it confirmed that meter is just a preprogrammed multi-rate meter so I can continue as is for now and until things settle. Online quotes for E10 are impossible at the moment. Some suppliers have my meter as an E7 meter and the likes of OVO who have just fitted a smart E10 meter in my neighbours house won't even give me a quote as they don't support my meter set up at present and not may other suppliers are visiting the islands at the moment. I guess it will take many long phone calls when the time come unless by some chance you get to speak to someone who actually knows what they are talking about, where Shetland is etc etc. I get the feeling even if a bit more expensive a single rate meter might be the way to go with my system set up and my electrician said it would be a simple install but meter fitters will only replace like for like so would not replace a multi-rate meter with a single rate meter. Thanks again for your efforts so far. I've emailed Horstman pictures but not had a reply as yet

Gerry1

Burntwalnut said:

Yes Gerry, looking at chart it should have been replaced or recertified in Feb 2019 but I would be happy if I could have it confirmed that meter is just a preprogrammed multi-rate meter so I can continue as is for now and until things settle.

• My first bet is that the Horstmann is an RTS meter.

• My second bet is that it will happily carry on with its existing settings if the R4 Long Wave signal is switched off at the end of June.  Only tariffs such as THTC and Weathercall would be affected.

• My third bet is that the R4 Long Wave signal will carry on until the 'drop dead' date at the end of 2025.  Or even afterwards...

Burntwalnut said:

Online quotes for E10 are impossible at the moment.

Nope !