PCN Castle Hill Car Park

dilemadiva

Hi
Received Ntk for not paying within the five minutes allowed period. 
Downloaded the useless app on entering. Could not complete transaction. Had two grandchildren under 4 so went to ask for help at the English Heritage site. Told it was a private car park and could not help. 
Once  children were settled and in a safe environment I managed to complete the payment process.  Probably due to better reception area for signal. Received the Ntk. 24/8.
I appealed but Excel sent a letter to say need the name of driver to process appeal.  I appealed again as the Keeper. Still haven't disclosed the driver. 
Alleged Contravention 29/7. Issue date 16/8 actually received 24/8.
Gone back to take pictures of the signs and 
Noticed the signs are showing incorrect tariff to that I paid for. 
Think I was too late for the appeal which I am sure wouldn't make any difference.
Do I sit and wait for court letters?

Gr1pr

Where is this Castle Hill location ?  Windsor. ?  are we expected to know. ?

Plan A is the best option here, as mentioned in the newbies sticky thread in announcements 

You are awaiting the Letter of Claim from Excel or their contracted lawyers, not court letters 

dilemadiva

Hi 
Sorry. Thought I had put the location.
It's the car park at Conisbrough Castle.Doncaster S.Yorks. 
Notorious for the five minutes rule. App doesn't work and takes longer than five mins to complete set up. Only form of payment.
I don't know if it's a bad reception area or a shoddy app or both. 
I have appealed but not holding my breath.
I know one thing I won't be paying anything if I can help it. 

Coupon-mad

dilemadiva said:

Hi 
Sorry. Thought I had put the location.
It's the car park at Conisbrough Castle.Doncaster S.Yorks. 
Notorious for the five minutes rule. App doesn't work and takes longer than five mins to complete set up. Only form of payment.
I don't know if it's a bad reception area or a shoddy app or both. 
I have appealed but not holding my breath.
I know one thing I won't be paying anything if I can help it. 

Very happy to read you say that.  Exactly the right approach. Having to pay by app within 5 minutes in most locations is impossible.

Keep your photos for court claim stage.

Put a bad review on TripAdvisor.

RogerW_3

You photographed the signs, Please post them here. I am pretty certain the entrance sign is non-compliant with the IPC Code of Practice so if I can see your photo I can explain your possible get of jail free card 

LDast

It's not a PoFA complaint PCN which is the best "get out of jail free" card. Simply keep on about no Keeper liability and tell them to go rotate on a sharp stick... slowly.

RogerW_3

Have a look at your photo of the car park entrance sign (the one with the castle picture). It is non-compliant with IPC Code of Practice requirements for signage. You will observe that it refers to terms and conditions at the (non-existent) parking meters. The current site signage has probably not been audited by the IPC (or the audit would pick up the non-compliant entrance sign). Without that audit no Parking Charge Notice can be issued (see IPC Code). Even if an audit was carried out it was done incorrectly due to the entrance signage not correctly referring to the correct location for the secondary signage. By issuing a PCN Excel, DCBL and DCB Legal may be using fraudulent misrepresentation in an attempt to obtain money by deception. Renshaw-Smith and Cockcroft filed the two planning applications for that currently non-compliant entrance sign so they would probably have a big problem defending a fraudulent misrepresentation complaint.

RogerW_3

By the way, the last planning application for that entrance sign (late 2023) includes a picture of an entrance sign that refers to the parking meter terms and conditions. Excel are rubber-ducked by their car park entrance sign that effectively requires motorists to pay at a parking meter in accordance with the terms and conditions at the meter, and that is physically impossible because there are no parking meters or associated terms and conditions. By way of his own planning application and failure to replace the entrance sign to suit other changed payment method, Alun Cockcroft, Excel director, is probably effectively allowing everyone to park for free. There is no entrance or parking meter signage identifying what a motorist should do if the parking meters are not working (because that signage has been removed by Excel!).

RogerW_3

As per the Code, Excel need to put temporary signage at that car park entrance sign to warn motorists before they enter the car park that the parking meter and associated terms and conditions have been replaced by whatever payment method is identified on their new terms and conditions signage that replaced the parking meter and associated signage. So again, Excel are rubber-ducked, especially as they should very obviously have changed that entrance sign as part of their last 2023 planning application and Cockcroft has absolutely no excuse for not doing so. That incorrect entrance sign makes the content of the new signage elsewhere (including the new payment method) unfair terms and conditions because they are are being imposed after you agreed to the terms stated on the entrance sign which are (were) different. Also, please note that whereas the entrance sign requires you to make payment at the parking meter within 5 minutes you cannot actually physically do that, so they cannot issue a parking charge notice against anyone for not paying within 5 minutes. Due to their own incompetence and acts of prevention at best they are limited to requesting payment of the stated tariff and nothing more pursuant to IPC Code Section 18.

Coupon-mad

RogerW_3 said:

As per the Code, Excel need to put temporary signage at that car park entrance sign to warn motorists before they enter the car park that the parking meter and associated terms and conditions have been replaced by whatever payment method is identified on their new terms and conditions signage that replaced the parking meter and associated signage.

That incorrect entrance sign makes the content of the new signage elsewhere (including the new payment method) unfair terms and conditions because they are are being imposed after you agreed to the terms stated on the entrance sign which are (were) different. 

Also under the CPUTRS (still good law):

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a74d389e5274a3cb28677f4/oft1008.pdf

"A trader operates a car park..."

We should use that example more often.

RogerW_3

Very useful