Ebico standing charges 19p g. 18p e

xflare

wrf12345 said:

 Pity that Octopus, despite admitting that s/c's are too high, have joined in with the other big players in keeping them far too high - my one gripe against the company but enough to make me shift?

Yes, this is something I found odd about Octopus. Their SC is about 2p less than most though

Admitting Standing charges are too high?  Well offer some new competitive tariffs

bristolleedsfan

xflare said:

bristolleedsfan said:

Worth also mentioning Ebico Living now "supplied by our licensed supply partner Rebel Energy" ( previously was Octopus)

British Gas have launched a new 12 month fix version E SC - 14p ish per day cheaper than Octopus 15 month fix, + unit rate cheaper + Amazon gift card if know someone with them.

I just switched to that British Gas fixed tariff.  The new unit rates would be the same as my older supplier from the 1st Oct, but the Electricity standing charge is 34p instead of 51p and gas 23p instead of 31p.  Im a very very low energy user and the standing charge made up about 75% of my Bill !  Also got a referal so should get the Amazon gift card.

 

Fixed Tariff 12M v16, unit rates cheaper than October 1st flexible for my region.

 As rules stand after12 months can go back to Octopus via £50 referral.

 Some say gas costs elsewhere reduce switching benefit, gas can be kept with Octopus who are typically one of the cheapest for fixed rate gas. visa versa electricity.....( compared to other large suppliers)

mmmmikey

xflare said:

wrf12345 said:

 Pity that Octopus, despite admitting that s/c's are too high, have joined in with the other big players in keeping them far too high - my one gripe against the company but enough to make me shift?

Yes, this is something I found odd about Octopus. Their SC is about 2p less than most though

Admitting Standing charges are too high?  Well offer some new competitive tariffs

If Octopus (or anyone else) charge one customer less for the same amount of electricity + standing charges they have to charge another customer more to maintain the same level of profits. So if they unilaterally introduce a "genuine" low standing charge tariff which actually does work out cheaper (i.e. they don't just put the charges back onto the unit rates for the customer who ends up paying the same) they'll have to put up prices elsewhere. Otherwise they'd just attract lots of loss making customers and end up going put of business. And of course, if they did put up prices elsewhere they would start to lose other customers who would go elsewhere for better rates.

So the effect of unilaterally offering genuine low standing charge tariffs (i.e. ones that save you money not just claw back the savings in increased unit rates) is that you gain unprofitable customers and lose profitable customers. It's just not sustainable and doesn't work.

On a more general level, that means that the low standing charge tariffs like the Ebico one that's the subject of this thread are either (a) gimmicks and you end up paying the same or more overall because what you save on standing charges you pay back in increased rates, or (b) they are reducing profits and/or making losses in order to attract new customers - i.e. so called "loss leaders".

There isn't an easy answer I'm afraid. Sooner or later the costs have to be paid, whether that's through standing charges or unit rates. Reducing standing charges by shifting the costs onto unit rates doesn't make electricity cheaper overall, it just means that costs shift from one group of customers (many of whom are vulnerable and would benefit) to another group of customers (many of whom are equally vulnerable and would lose and suffer as a result).

MP1995

mmmmikey said:

xflare said:

wrf12345 said:

 Pity that Octopus, despite admitting that s/c's are too high, have joined in with the other big players in keeping them far too high - my one gripe against the company but enough to make me shift?

Yes, this is something I found odd about Octopus. Their SC is about 2p less than most though

Admitting Standing charges are too high?  Well offer some new competitive tariffs

If Octopus (or anyone else) charge one customer less for the same amount of electricity + standing charges they have to charge another customer more to maintain the same level of profits. So if they unilaterally introduce a "genuine" low standing charge tariff which actually does work out cheaper (i.e. they don't just put the charges back onto the unit rates for the customer who ends up paying the same) they'll have to put up prices elsewhere. Otherwise they'd just attract lots of loss making customers and end up going put of business. And of course, if they did put up prices elsewhere they would start to lose other customers who would go elsewhere for better rates.

So the effect of unilaterally offering genuine low standing charge tariffs (i.e. ones that save you money not just claw back the savings in increased unit rates) is that you gain unprofitable customers and lose profitable customers. It's just not sustainable and doesn't work.

On a more general level, that means that the low standing charge tariffs like the Ebico one that's the subject of this thread are either (a) gimmicks and you end up paying the same or more overall because what you save on standing charges you pay back in increased rates, or (b) they are reducing profits and/or making losses in order to attract new customers - i.e. so called "loss leaders".

There isn't an easy answer I'm afraid. Sooner or later the costs have to be paid, whether that's through standing charges or unit rates. Reducing standing charges by shifting the costs onto unit rates doesn't make electricity cheaper overall, it just means that costs shift from one group of customers (many of whom are vulnerable and would benefit) to another group of customers (many of whom are equally vulnerable and would lose and suffer as a result).

Not quite true imo. A large amount of standing charge is for the supplier for "running costs"  Any supplier can become more efficient in their running costs and pass that on. There's quite a hit of money in the SC where suppliers can adjust their SC and or price per kwh.

Octopus being the birth child of Kraken must have made some big savings in the customer services area etc hence the circa 5% SC reduction they offer and their other money saving tariffs.

wrf12345

The point about Octopus is that they are not offering lowered s/c and increased unit rates, which even BG seem to be able to do - and why would they want "loss making" customers if those are supposedly the only people they will attract. I still think that having zero s/c on smart prepayment meters (that have no debt possibilities so save companies a small fortune) is the way to go, albeit with a 10-15 percent increase in unit rates. Offering a social tariff for those on benefits would, like getting rid of the winter fuel allowance, not address the millions who are self sufficient but on a low income. It is a very simple way of addressing the problem that does not require another government department or ever more intrusive local councils.

BillTee

Grizzlebeard said:

Very happy Ex Ebico customer, currently very happy Octopus customer.

Very very low user, (Less than 1kWh/day Elec and less than 1kWh/day Gas,)

Octopus annual quote from October = £413 pa (My calc on expected usage £397)

Ebico Signature annual quote from October = £280 pa (My calc on expected usage £280)

My daily spreadsheet, (consolidated monthly) says both these quotes are pretty accurate.

100% trust in both Octopus and Ebico.

Researching Rebel Energy a bit more.

Decision pending.

I'm looking at Ebico as also all electric low user. Tried to get Octopus Agile standing charge quote but was told that SC, like electric units was variable so Octopus wouldn't quote. I gave them all the info asked - including photos of my meter. Is this correct that SC changes daily? Is there a ballpark figure for the SC? It's about 70% of bill with Sainsburys so really looking to switch based upon SC. Thank you

wrf12345

You will get the sc if you go to the site and get a quote, it is somewhere in the details - it varies according to the region, it will be at the top end of the capped range for new contracts, you may have to filter through to get to the Agile tariff but you will start on the variable if a new customer (and the s/c will be the same). Agile is fixed for a year so the s/c of existing customers will vary according to when they signed up and where they live so some guys here may be as low as 40p/day.

MP1995

BillTee said:

Grizzlebeard said:

Very happy Ex Ebico customer, currently very happy Octopus customer.

Very very low user, (Less than 1kWh/day Elec and less than 1kWh/day Gas,)

Octopus annual quote from October = £413 pa (My calc on expected usage £397)

Ebico Signature annual quote from October = £280 pa (My calc on expected usage £280)

My daily spreadsheet, (consolidated monthly) says both these quotes are pretty accurate.

100% trust in both Octopus and Ebico.

Researching Rebel Energy a bit more.

Decision pending.

I'm looking at Ebico as also all electric low user. Tried to get Octopus Agile standing charge quote but was told that SC, like electric units was variable so Octopus wouldn't quote. I gave them all the info asked - including photos of my meter. Is this correct that SC changes daily? Is there a ballpark figure for the SC? It's about 70% of bill with Sainsburys so really looking to switch based upon SC. Thank you

The standing charge can change every 3 months along with the price per kwh for both gas and electricity.

Spoonie_Turtle

MP1995 said:

BillTee said:

Grizzlebeard said:

Very happy Ex Ebico customer, currently very happy Octopus customer.

Very very low user, (Less than 1kWh/day Elec and less than 1kWh/day Gas,)

Octopus annual quote from October = £413 pa (My calc on expected usage £397)

Ebico Signature annual quote from October = £280 pa (My calc on expected usage £280)

My daily spreadsheet, (consolidated monthly) says both these quotes are pretty accurate.

100% trust in both Octopus and Ebico.

Researching Rebel Energy a bit more.

Decision pending.

I'm looking at Ebico as also all electric low user. Tried to get Octopus Agile standing charge quote but was told that SC, like electric units was variable so Octopus wouldn't quote. I gave them all the info asked - including photos of my meter. Is this correct that SC changes daily? Is there a ballpark figure for the SC? It's about 70% of bill with Sainsburys so really looking to switch based upon SC. Thank you

The standing charge can change every 3 months along with the price per kwh for both gas and electricity.

Not sure it does any more (also no Agile for gas)

"2.3.2.2 For customers who signed up or renewed after 11 December 2023: Agile Octopus is a Variable Rate Tariff with a fixed term. This means whilst your unit rate varies daily throughout the day, your daily standing charge and the unit rate pricing formula are fixed for the duration of your tariff term."

For the person wanting to find Agile SC for their region, https://octopus.energy/tariffs/
put your postcode in, DON'T click 'get a quote' just scroll down.  Filter by 'Domestic' and 'Smart' and it'll be in the list.