Retirement Planning Spreadsheet example

leosayer

Moonwolf said:

sgx2000 said:

Lol......
Perhaps we are all nerds......

Joking aside, it is staggering how many people go into retirement with no idea what they are doing......

I remember trying to have pension conversations with my ex-colleagues ....
I might as well have been talking to the wall......

2 months into retirement.....loving it....

I told a colleague the other day that I am probably retiring in 6 months, she is only a few years younger than me.  She said "I am green with envy." So I asked about her pensions and provision and said I'm happy to talk to her about how she might improve her pensions.  

The reply "I hate thinking about pensions, as soon as I start I lose the will to live."

My pensions are my biggest asset, worth more than my house, even if it is tedious it has to be worth the effort to understand them.

I used to work for an investment company and I found that as a rule that financial planning knowledge is concentrated only in those who are in that role eg. investment managers and advisors. 90% of all other employees eg. HR, IT, Operations, Finance etc are generally ignorant.

I tried to help address this by holdings sessions with my colleagues but despite there being 20-30 people on the call, only 2 or 3 would interact. A few people came to discuss stuff with me individually but my experience generally is that most people only start looking at pensions when they are forced to because of redundancy, ill health or some other reason that is outside of their control. By this time, it's too late to make the most of retirement planning opportunities such as investment growth, tax reliefs etc.

It doesn't bode well for the future when most pension provision in the private sector is DC only. 

Cobbler_tone

leosayer said:

Moonwolf said:

sgx2000 said:

Lol......
Perhaps we are all nerds......

Joking aside, it is staggering how many people go into retirement with no idea what they are doing......

I remember trying to have pension conversations with my ex-colleagues ....
I might as well have been talking to the wall......

2 months into retirement.....loving it....

I told a colleague the other day that I am probably retiring in 6 months, she is only a few years younger than me.  She said "I am green with envy." So I asked about her pensions and provision and said I'm happy to talk to her about how she might improve her pensions.  

The reply "I hate thinking about pensions, as soon as I start I lose the will to live."

My pensions are my biggest asset, worth more than my house, even if it is tedious it has to be worth the effort to understand them.

I used to work for an investment company and I found that as a rule that financial planning knowledge is concentrated only in those who are in that role eg. investment managers and advisors. 90% of all other employees eg. HR, IT, Operations, Finance etc are generally ignorant.

I tried to help address this by holdings sessions with my colleagues but despite there being 20-30 people on the call, only 2 or 3 would interact. A few people came to discuss stuff with me individually but my experience generally is that most people only start looking at pensions when they are forced to because of redundancy, ill health or some other reason that is outside of their control. By this time, it's too late to make the most of retirement planning opportunities such as investment growth, tax reliefs etc.

It doesn't bode well for the future when most pension provision in the private sector is DC only. 

Ditto. I get a couple of people a year come and see me regarding their pension and some help to understand them.
We have tons of people in their late 50's/early 60's who 'could' comfortably retire and been in the pension for 30+ years but don't even have their log on. They are programmed to retire at state pension age and I can remember some moaning when the state pension age was raised because it meant they had to work longer. Some will have DB pensions of £25k a year plus, a modest DC pot, along with a £100k company share holding and will have no idea. That said, I appreciate some people are not driven by earlier retirement, or retirement at all.
I don't go out of my way to force it upon people because it isn't my job and I'm not a financial advisor. You can imagine the come back if you ever said something that was misconstrued. The important thing is that I am on top of my own situation!

GenX0212

Cobbler_tone said:

leosayer said:

Moonwolf said:

sgx2000 said:

Lol......
Perhaps we are all nerds......

Joking aside, it is staggering how many people go into retirement with no idea what they are doing......

I remember trying to have pension conversations with my ex-colleagues ....
I might as well have been talking to the wall......

2 months into retirement.....loving it....

I told a colleague the other day that I am probably retiring in 6 months, she is only a few years younger than me.  She said "I am green with envy." So I asked about her pensions and provision and said I'm happy to talk to her about how she might improve her pensions.  

The reply "I hate thinking about pensions, as soon as I start I lose the will to live."

My pensions are my biggest asset, worth more than my house, even if it is tedious it has to be worth the effort to understand them.

I used to work for an investment company and I found that as a rule that financial planning knowledge is concentrated only in those who are in that role eg. investment managers and advisors. 90% of all other employees eg. HR, IT, Operations, Finance etc are generally ignorant.

I tried to help address this by holdings sessions with my colleagues but despite there being 20-30 people on the call, only 2 or 3 would interact. A few people came to discuss stuff with me individually but my experience generally is that most people only start looking at pensions when they are forced to because of redundancy, ill health or some other reason that is outside of their control. By this time, it's too late to make the most of retirement planning opportunities such as investment growth, tax reliefs etc.

It doesn't bode well for the future when most pension provision in the private sector is DC only. 

Ditto. I get a couple of people a year come and see me regarding their pension and some help to understand them.
We have tons of people in their late 50's/early 60's who 'could' comfortably retire and been in the pension for 30+ years but don't even have their log on. They are programmed to retire at state pension age and I can remember some moaning when the state pension age was raised because it meant they had to work longer. Some will have DB pensions of £25k a year plus, a modest DC pot, along with a £100k company share holding and will have no idea. That said, I appreciate some people are not driven by earlier retirement, or retirement at all.
I don't go out of my way to force it upon people because it isn't my job and I'm not a financial advisor. You can imagine the come back if you ever said something that was misconstrued. The important thing is that I am on top of my own situation!

100% true. I only started considering thing properly a few years back and making adjustments to maximise pension savings when I decided I wanted an early retirement. As one example many years ago as a couple we lost out on the child benefit due to my higher earnings but at no point did I realise sacrificing some of my earnings would have topped up my pension and brought my take home pay down below the cutoff - would have been a double win. On the other hand at that stage of life we pretty much spent everything we earned.

pterri

GenX0212 said:

Cobbler_tone said:

leosayer said:

Moonwolf said:

sgx2000 said:

Lol......
Perhaps we are all nerds......

Joking aside, it is staggering how many people go into retirement with no idea what they are doing......

I remember trying to have pension conversations with my ex-colleagues ....
I might as well have been talking to the wall......

2 months into retirement.....loving it....

I told a colleague the other day that I am probably retiring in 6 months, she is only a few years younger than me.  She said "I am green with envy." So I asked about her pensions and provision and said I'm happy to talk to her about how she might improve her pensions.  

The reply "I hate thinking about pensions, as soon as I start I lose the will to live."

My pensions are my biggest asset, worth more than my house, even if it is tedious it has to be worth the effort to understand them.

I used to work for an investment company and I found that as a rule that financial planning knowledge is concentrated only in those who are in that role eg. investment managers and advisors. 90% of all other employees eg. HR, IT, Operations, Finance etc are generally ignorant.

I tried to help address this by holdings sessions with my colleagues but despite there being 20-30 people on the call, only 2 or 3 would interact. A few people came to discuss stuff with me individually but my experience generally is that most people only start looking at pensions when they are forced to because of redundancy, ill health or some other reason that is outside of their control. By this time, it's too late to make the most of retirement planning opportunities such as investment growth, tax reliefs etc.

It doesn't bode well for the future when most pension provision in the private sector is DC only. 

Ditto. I get a couple of people a year come and see me regarding their pension and some help to understand them.
We have tons of people in their late 50's/early 60's who 'could' comfortably retire and been in the pension for 30+ years but don't even have their log on. They are programmed to retire at state pension age and I can remember some moaning when the state pension age was raised because it meant they had to work longer. Some will have DB pensions of £25k a year plus, a modest DC pot, along with a £100k company share holding and will have no idea. That said, I appreciate some people are not driven by earlier retirement, or retirement at all.
I don't go out of my way to force it upon people because it isn't my job and I'm not a financial advisor. You can imagine the come back if you ever said something that was misconstrued. The important thing is that I am on top of my own situation!

100% true. I only started considering thing properly a few years back and making adjustments to maximise pension savings when I decided I wanted an early retirement. As one example many years ago as a couple we lost out on the child benefit due to my higher earnings but at no point did I realise sacrificing some of my earnings would have topped up my pension and brought my take home pay down below the cutoff - would have been a double win. On the other hand at that stage of life we pretty much spent everything we earned.

I started chucking money into a SIPP and ISAs once I realised I could have a SIPP alongside my DB (yes I know) also payed of the mortgage early. I thought I may be able to leap at 60 but suddenly realised I could go earlier. I’m 57 and leaving at the end of may. The power of compound interest and tax relief really is a marvelous thing. Yep, a DB safety net really does take the pressure off having to build a massive pot to ride out unexpected market shifts. If I only had a DC I’d be constantly stressed, I wonder if that forces people to work far longer even when the conventional advice and modelling says they have plenty of headroom? 

SouthCoastBoy

pterri said:

GenX0212 said:

Cobbler_tone said:

leosayer said:

Moonwolf said:

sgx2000 said:

Lol......
Perhaps we are all nerds......

Joking aside, it is staggering how many people go into retirement with no idea what they are doing......

I remember trying to have pension conversations with my ex-colleagues ....
I might as well have been talking to the wall......

2 months into retirement.....loving it....

I told a colleague the other day that I am probably retiring in 6 months, she is only a few years younger than me.  She said "I am green with envy." So I asked about her pensions and provision and said I'm happy to talk to her about how she might improve her pensions.  

The reply "I hate thinking about pensions, as soon as I start I lose the will to live."

My pensions are my biggest asset, worth more than my house, even if it is tedious it has to be worth the effort to understand them.

I used to work for an investment company and I found that as a rule that financial planning knowledge is concentrated only in those who are in that role eg. investment managers and advisors. 90% of all other employees eg. HR, IT, Operations, Finance etc are generally ignorant.

I tried to help address this by holdings sessions with my colleagues but despite there being 20-30 people on the call, only 2 or 3 would interact. A few people came to discuss stuff with me individually but my experience generally is that most people only start looking at pensions when they are forced to because of redundancy, ill health or some other reason that is outside of their control. By this time, it's too late to make the most of retirement planning opportunities such as investment growth, tax reliefs etc.

It doesn't bode well for the future when most pension provision in the private sector is DC only. 

Ditto. I get a couple of people a year come and see me regarding their pension and some help to understand them.
We have tons of people in their late 50's/early 60's who 'could' comfortably retire and been in the pension for 30+ years but don't even have their log on. They are programmed to retire at state pension age and I can remember some moaning when the state pension age was raised because it meant they had to work longer. Some will have DB pensions of £25k a year plus, a modest DC pot, along with a £100k company share holding and will have no idea. That said, I appreciate some people are not driven by earlier retirement, or retirement at all.
I don't go out of my way to force it upon people because it isn't my job and I'm not a financial advisor. You can imagine the come back if you ever said something that was misconstrued. The important thing is that I am on top of my own situation!

100% true. I only started considering thing properly a few years back and making adjustments to maximise pension savings when I decided I wanted an early retirement. As one example many years ago as a couple we lost out on the child benefit due to my higher earnings but at no point did I realise sacrificing some of my earnings would have topped up my pension and brought my take home pay down below the cutoff - would have been a double win. On the other hand at that stage of life we pretty much spent everything we earned.

I started chucking money into a SIPP and ISAs once I realised I could have a SIPP alongside my DB (yes I know) also payed of the mortgage early. I thought I may be able to leap at 60 but suddenly realised I could go earlier. I’m 57 and leaving at the end of may. The power of compound interest and tax relief really is a marvelous thing. Yep, a DB safety net really does take the pressure off having to build a massive pot to ride out unexpected market shifts. If I only had a DC I’d be constantly stressed, I wonder if that forces people to work far longer even when the conventional advice and modelling says they have plenty of headroom? 

Your point about only dc and working longer, I think it does, and it's where I am at the moment. Currently 60 not sure when I'm going to retire but imagine a couple of years yet.

NoMore

SouthCoastBoy said:

pterri said:

GenX0212 said:

Cobbler_tone said:

leosayer said:

Moonwolf said:

sgx2000 said:

Lol......
Perhaps we are all nerds......

Joking aside, it is staggering how many people go into retirement with no idea what they are doing......

I remember trying to have pension conversations with my ex-colleagues ....
I might as well have been talking to the wall......

2 months into retirement.....loving it....

I told a colleague the other day that I am probably retiring in 6 months, she is only a few years younger than me.  She said "I am green with envy." So I asked about her pensions and provision and said I'm happy to talk to her about how she might improve her pensions.  

The reply "I hate thinking about pensions, as soon as I start I lose the will to live."

My pensions are my biggest asset, worth more than my house, even if it is tedious it has to be worth the effort to understand them.

I used to work for an investment company and I found that as a rule that financial planning knowledge is concentrated only in those who are in that role eg. investment managers and advisors. 90% of all other employees eg. HR, IT, Operations, Finance etc are generally ignorant.

I tried to help address this by holdings sessions with my colleagues but despite there being 20-30 people on the call, only 2 or 3 would interact. A few people came to discuss stuff with me individually but my experience generally is that most people only start looking at pensions when they are forced to because of redundancy, ill health or some other reason that is outside of their control. By this time, it's too late to make the most of retirement planning opportunities such as investment growth, tax reliefs etc.

It doesn't bode well for the future when most pension provision in the private sector is DC only. 

Ditto. I get a couple of people a year come and see me regarding their pension and some help to understand them.
We have tons of people in their late 50's/early 60's who 'could' comfortably retire and been in the pension for 30+ years but don't even have their log on. They are programmed to retire at state pension age and I can remember some moaning when the state pension age was raised because it meant they had to work longer. Some will have DB pensions of £25k a year plus, a modest DC pot, along with a £100k company share holding and will have no idea. That said, I appreciate some people are not driven by earlier retirement, or retirement at all.
I don't go out of my way to force it upon people because it isn't my job and I'm not a financial advisor. You can imagine the come back if you ever said something that was misconstrued. The important thing is that I am on top of my own situation!

100% true. I only started considering thing properly a few years back and making adjustments to maximise pension savings when I decided I wanted an early retirement. As one example many years ago as a couple we lost out on the child benefit due to my higher earnings but at no point did I realise sacrificing some of my earnings would have topped up my pension and brought my take home pay down below the cutoff - would have been a double win. On the other hand at that stage of life we pretty much spent everything we earned.

I started chucking money into a SIPP and ISAs once I realised I could have a SIPP alongside my DB (yes I know) also payed of the mortgage early. I thought I may be able to leap at 60 but suddenly realised I could go earlier. I’m 57 and leaving at the end of may. The power of compound interest and tax relief really is a marvelous thing. Yep, a DB safety net really does take the pressure off having to build a massive pot to ride out unexpected market shifts. If I only had a DC I’d be constantly stressed, I wonder if that forces people to work far longer even when the conventional advice and modelling says they have plenty of headroom? 

Your point about only dc and working longer, I think it does, and it's where I am at the moment. Currently 60 not sure when I'm going to retire but imagine a couple of years yet.

Annuities are the solution to that, if you are worried about having to rely on a DC pot and having to deal with it then just buy an annuity and remove all the risk to somebody else.

SouthCoastBoy

NoMore said:

SouthCoastBoy said:

pterri said:

GenX0212 said:

Cobbler_tone said:

leosayer said:

Moonwolf said:

sgx2000 said:

Lol......
Perhaps we are all nerds......

Joking aside, it is staggering how many people go into retirement with no idea what they are doing......

I remember trying to have pension conversations with my ex-colleagues ....
I might as well have been talking to the wall......

2 months into retirement.....loving it....

I told a colleague the other day that I am probably retiring in 6 months, she is only a few years younger than me.  She said "I am green with envy." So I asked about her pensions and provision and said I'm happy to talk to her about how she might improve her pensions.  

The reply "I hate thinking about pensions, as soon as I start I lose the will to live."

My pensions are my biggest asset, worth more than my house, even if it is tedious it has to be worth the effort to understand them.

I used to work for an investment company and I found that as a rule that financial planning knowledge is concentrated only in those who are in that role eg. investment managers and advisors. 90% of all other employees eg. HR, IT, Operations, Finance etc are generally ignorant.

I tried to help address this by holdings sessions with my colleagues but despite there being 20-30 people on the call, only 2 or 3 would interact. A few people came to discuss stuff with me individually but my experience generally is that most people only start looking at pensions when they are forced to because of redundancy, ill health or some other reason that is outside of their control. By this time, it's too late to make the most of retirement planning opportunities such as investment growth, tax reliefs etc.

It doesn't bode well for the future when most pension provision in the private sector is DC only. 

Ditto. I get a couple of people a year come and see me regarding their pension and some help to understand them.
We have tons of people in their late 50's/early 60's who 'could' comfortably retire and been in the pension for 30+ years but don't even have their log on. They are programmed to retire at state pension age and I can remember some moaning when the state pension age was raised because it meant they had to work longer. Some will have DB pensions of £25k a year plus, a modest DC pot, along with a £100k company share holding and will have no idea. That said, I appreciate some people are not driven by earlier retirement, or retirement at all.
I don't go out of my way to force it upon people because it isn't my job and I'm not a financial advisor. You can imagine the come back if you ever said something that was misconstrued. The important thing is that I am on top of my own situation!

100% true. I only started considering thing properly a few years back and making adjustments to maximise pension savings when I decided I wanted an early retirement. As one example many years ago as a couple we lost out on the child benefit due to my higher earnings but at no point did I realise sacrificing some of my earnings would have topped up my pension and brought my take home pay down below the cutoff - would have been a double win. On the other hand at that stage of life we pretty much spent everything we earned.

I started chucking money into a SIPP and ISAs once I realised I could have a SIPP alongside my DB (yes I know) also payed of the mortgage early. I thought I may be able to leap at 60 but suddenly realised I could go earlier. I’m 57 and leaving at the end of may. The power of compound interest and tax relief really is a marvelous thing. Yep, a DB safety net really does take the pressure off having to build a massive pot to ride out unexpected market shifts. If I only had a DC I’d be constantly stressed, I wonder if that forces people to work far longer even when the conventional advice and modelling says they have plenty of headroom? 

Your point about only dc and working longer, I think it does, and it's where I am at the moment. Currently 60 not sure when I'm going to retire but imagine a couple of years yet.

Annuities are the solution to that, if you are worried about having to rely on a DC pot and having to deal with it then just buy an annuity and remove all the risk to somebody else.

the problem with annuities is i don't think they are value for money, so not particularly keen on that route.

QrizB

And the problem with that, of course, is that if you don't trust your drawdown strategy and simultaneously don't think annuities offer VFM, you never retire and end up the richest corpse in the graveyard.

SouthCoastBoy

QrizB said:

And the problem with that, of course, is that if you don't trust your drawdown strategy and simultaneously don't think annuities offer VFM, you never retire and end up the richest corpse in the graveyard.

Yes, but at least my children will benefit, and I would prefer to die with plenty of money rather than live my last years on the state pension alone.

OldScientist

SouthCoastBoy said:

NoMore said:

SouthCoastBoy said:

pterri said:

GenX0212 said:

Cobbler_tone said:

leosayer said:

Moonwolf said:

sgx2000 said:

Lol......
Perhaps we are all nerds......

Joking aside, it is staggering how many people go into retirement with no idea what they are doing......

I remember trying to have pension conversations with my ex-colleagues ....
I might as well have been talking to the wall......

2 months into retirement.....loving it....

I told a colleague the other day that I am probably retiring in 6 months, she is only a few years younger than me.  She said "I am green with envy." So I asked about her pensions and provision and said I'm happy to talk to her about how she might improve her pensions.  

The reply "I hate thinking about pensions, as soon as I start I lose the will to live."

My pensions are my biggest asset, worth more than my house, even if it is tedious it has to be worth the effort to understand them.

I used to work for an investment company and I found that as a rule that financial planning knowledge is concentrated only in those who are in that role eg. investment managers and advisors. 90% of all other employees eg. HR, IT, Operations, Finance etc are generally ignorant.

I tried to help address this by holdings sessions with my colleagues but despite there being 20-30 people on the call, only 2 or 3 would interact. A few people came to discuss stuff with me individually but my experience generally is that most people only start looking at pensions when they are forced to because of redundancy, ill health or some other reason that is outside of their control. By this time, it's too late to make the most of retirement planning opportunities such as investment growth, tax reliefs etc.

It doesn't bode well for the future when most pension provision in the private sector is DC only. 

Ditto. I get a couple of people a year come and see me regarding their pension and some help to understand them.
We have tons of people in their late 50's/early 60's who 'could' comfortably retire and been in the pension for 30+ years but don't even have their log on. They are programmed to retire at state pension age and I can remember some moaning when the state pension age was raised because it meant they had to work longer. Some will have DB pensions of £25k a year plus, a modest DC pot, along with a £100k company share holding and will have no idea. That said, I appreciate some people are not driven by earlier retirement, or retirement at all.
I don't go out of my way to force it upon people because it isn't my job and I'm not a financial advisor. You can imagine the come back if you ever said something that was misconstrued. The important thing is that I am on top of my own situation!

100% true. I only started considering thing properly a few years back and making adjustments to maximise pension savings when I decided I wanted an early retirement. As one example many years ago as a couple we lost out on the child benefit due to my higher earnings but at no point did I realise sacrificing some of my earnings would have topped up my pension and brought my take home pay down below the cutoff - would have been a double win. On the other hand at that stage of life we pretty much spent everything we earned.

I started chucking money into a SIPP and ISAs once I realised I could have a SIPP alongside my DB (yes I know) also payed of the mortgage early. I thought I may be able to leap at 60 but suddenly realised I could go earlier. I’m 57 and leaving at the end of may. The power of compound interest and tax relief really is a marvelous thing. Yep, a DB safety net really does take the pressure off having to build a massive pot to ride out unexpected market shifts. If I only had a DC I’d be constantly stressed, I wonder if that forces people to work far longer even when the conventional advice and modelling says they have plenty of headroom? 

Your point about only dc and working longer, I think it does, and it's where I am at the moment. Currently 60 not sure when I'm going to retire but imagine a couple of years yet.

Annuities are the solution to that, if you are worried about having to rely on a DC pot and having to deal with it then just buy an annuity and remove all the risk to somebody else.

the problem with annuities is i don't think they are value for money, so not particularly keen on that route.

Drawdown SWR for UK: Around 3.0% to 3.5% for a 30 year retirement (i.e., to 90yo assuming retirement at 60). Less for longer retirements (2.5% to 3.0% for 40 years). Nice very recent article at https://monevator.com/safe-withdrawal-rate-uk/

Joint RPI annuity (100% survivor benefits) taken at 60yo: 3.7%
Single life RPI annuity taken at 60yo : 4.4% 

Inflation linked gilt ladder (30 years): 4.1% (3.4% for 40 years)

Annuity Prices as of beginning of March 2025 (https://www.williamburrows.com/calculators/annuity-tables/ ) - they will have risen a bit since.

The actual SWR for a retirement starting now is unknown and unknowable (if could be higher or lower than the values given above).

Using an RPI annuity to help provide an income floor in addition to state pension, coupled with drawdown, will provide some certainty in income and possibly some confidence in actually pulling the trigger.