Probate property with cars left. who will own them?

raptor2004

thanks for all the responses. At this some I have no real interest in the cars. The executor has rejected my offer and I can leave it as that. Can I put something in place whereby if they dont remove the cars by completition that I can charge them? Same with all the other items in the house that they might leave behind and I'll have to pay to remove.

theartfullodger

I'd simply put in a condition declining to complete (IMHO exchange) unless the cars are gone.   You really really to find you are issuing invoices for storage that doesn't get paid for e.g. the next 7 years. (Well, I wouldn't..)

Who owns them?? Whatever it says in the will (have you seen it??).  
 

user1977

Or you just assume the property will still have junk for you to deal with, and adjust the price accordingly.

Hoenir

Don't exchange contracts until the property has been fully cleared. 

doodling

Hi,

What you want is something in the contract which states that any vehicles remaining on the property at completion will become yours.

If you don't have such a clause then if they are still there then you will be stuck with looking after them until they are collected (which might be weeks).  At least if they become yours then you can do whatever you want with them.

Requiring removal is fine but it doesn't actually help you if they haven't gone - are you going to turn round the removals truck if they are still there and ask for your money back?, or go to the trouble of trying to force removal legally after you have moved in?  It is easier to be in a position where you can call the local scrappie and get them to pick them up if they are still there.

Herzlos

Your options are basically:

Refuse to transfer the money until the cars are gone. That may encourage them to sort something out but may leave you in limbo if you're part of a chain.

Insist that everything on the property becomes yours as soon as you take ownership. Then apply for a new V5 and sell them for scrap.

Get them to agree to pay £10 per day per car for storage between completion and removal. This one is probably fairest but you've got almost no chance of getting any money from them.

ThisIsWeird

Raptor, is this purchase hanging in the balance in any way? Are you concerned about delays, and how it could scupper anything? Are you worried that the bolshie bro could have a tantrum and wreck the sale?

If not, then the advice above is good - make it a condition, and sit back and wait; the ball is in their court. 

But, if you just want the purchase to complete asap, then I would personally be ok about ignoring these chattels until completion, and then giving the owners a fair and reasonable - but set - timescale to remove them. I wouldn't try and get into the complexities of storage costs - just unnecessary. What if they say, 'ok', but then you have to chase them after 6 months when they haven't paid a penny?!

After completion, the facts will be that these cars - which you do not own - will be on your property. After being decent enough to give them a fixed date to remove them, you do so instead, and leave them anywhere else.

raptor2004

doodling said:

Hi,

What you want is something in the contract which states that any vehicles remaining on the property at completion will become yours.

If you don't have such a clause then if they are still there then you will be stuck with looking after them until they are collected (which might be weeks).  At least if they become yours then you can do whatever you want with them.

Requiring removal is fine but it doesn't actually help you if they haven't gone - are you going to turn round the removals truck if they are still there and ask for your money back?, or go to the trouble of trying to force removal legally after you have moved in?  It is easier to be in a position where you can call the local scrappie and get them to pick them up if they are still there.

Herzlos said:

Your options are basically:

Refuse to transfer the money until the cars are gone. That may encourage them to sort something out but may leave you in limbo if you're part of a chain.

Insist that everything on the property becomes yours as soon as you take ownership. Then apply for a new V5 and sell them for scrap.

Get them to agree to pay £10 per day per car for storage between completion and removal. This one is probably fairest but you've got almost no chance of getting any money from them.

ThisIsWeird said:

Raptor, is this purchase hanging in the balance in any way? Are you concerned about delays, and how it could scupper anything? Are you worried that the bolshie bro could have a tantrum and wreck the sale?

If not, then the advice above is good - make it a condition, and sit back and wait; the ball is in their court. 

But, if you just want the purchase to complete asap, then I would personally be ok about ignoring these chattels until completion, and then giving the owners a fair and reasonable - but set - timescale to remove them. I wouldn't try and get into the complexities of storage costs - just unnecessary. What if they say, 'ok', but then you have to chase them after 6 months when they haven't paid a penny?!

After completion, the facts will be that these cars - which you do not own - will be on your property. After being decent enough to give them a fixed date to remove them, you do so instead, and leave them anywhere else.

I don't think it is as easy as putting in a condition with my solicitors saying if any 'chattels' are left in the property, i.e. the cars, post completion then they automatically become mine? It is a probate, and the cars' V5 are in the deceased persons name. I can simply apply for a new V5.....?

To be honest I wanted all of the contents of the house, i.e. furniture, beds, microwave, even down to the lawn mower. I offered a price for it all but the difficult executor rejected. The offer I have now (which is very generous and probably slighly more than what the property is worth) is for a vacant one. The difficult executor seems a bit clueless and wants to remove everything and store it somewhere. They rent in a flat and don't have the space to store it.

I am a fair person and I have cooperated with the estate agent and the vendors but feel like I am getting taken for a ride now. My only request was to leave the kitchen stools (and I am happy to pay extra for them as part of the fixures and fittings list) but the difficult executor stubbornly refused. I think there is clearly some family resentment going on and the difficult executor is behaving irrationally. Bear in mind, I paid a £5000 deposit to the estate agent on the agreed offer price. Am I within my rights to tell the executors that I want most of the contents of the house for the agreed price I had initally put in?

Herzlos

Difficult family members often turn these things into a nightmare and sadly you can rarely reason with them.

You can propose pretty much any deal you want to them, and they can accept or reject.

ThisIsWeird

raptor2004 said:

doodling said:

Hi,

What you want is something in the contract which states that any vehicles remaining on the property at completion will become yours.

If you don't have such a clause then if they are still there then you will be stuck with looking after them until they are collected (which might be weeks).  At least if they become yours then you can do whatever you want with them.

Requiring removal is fine but it doesn't actually help you if they haven't gone - are you going to turn round the removals truck if they are still there and ask for your money back?, or go to the trouble of trying to force removal legally after you have moved in?  It is easier to be in a position where you can call the local scrappie and get them to pick them up if they are still there.

Herzlos said:

Your options are basically:

Refuse to transfer the money until the cars are gone. That may encourage them to sort something out but may leave you in limbo if you're part of a chain.

Insist that everything on the property becomes yours as soon as you take ownership. Then apply for a new V5 and sell them for scrap.

Get them to agree to pay £10 per day per car for storage between completion and removal. This one is probably fairest but you've got almost no chance of getting any money from them.

ThisIsWeird said:

Raptor, is this purchase hanging in the balance in any way? Are you concerned about delays, and how it could scupper anything? Are you worried that the bolshie bro could have a tantrum and wreck the sale?

If not, then the advice above is good - make it a condition, and sit back and wait; the ball is in their court. 

But, if you just want the purchase to complete asap, then I would personally be ok about ignoring these chattels until completion, and then giving the owners a fair and reasonable - but set - timescale to remove them. I wouldn't try and get into the complexities of storage costs - just unnecessary. What if they say, 'ok', but then you have to chase them after 6 months when they haven't paid a penny?!

After completion, the facts will be that these cars - which you do not own - will be on your property. After being decent enough to give them a fixed date to remove them, you do so instead, and leave them anywhere else.

I don't think it is as easy as putting in a condition with my solicitors saying if any 'chattels' are left in the property, i.e. the cars, post completion then they automatically become mine? It is a probate, and the cars' V5 are in the deceased persons name. I can simply apply for a new V5.....?

To be honest I wanted all of the contents of the house, i.e. furniture, beds, microwave, even down to the lawn mower. I offered a price for it all but the difficult executor rejected. The offer I have now (which is very generous and probably slighly more than what the property is worth) is for a vacant one. The difficult executor seems a bit clueless and wants to remove everything and store it somewhere. They rent in a flat and don't have the space to store it.

I am a fair person and I have cooperated with the estate agent and the vendors but feel like I am getting taken for a ride now. My only request was to leave the kitchen stools (and I am happy to pay extra for them as part of the fixures and fittings list) but the difficult executor stubbornly refused. I think there is clearly some family resentment going on and the difficult executor is behaving irrationally. Bear in mind, I paid a £5000 deposit to the estate agent on the agreed offer price. Am I within my rights to tell the executors that I want most of the contents of the house for the agreed price I had initally put in?

You can ask, but they don't have to agree. Even if it's just the bolshie guy who doesn't agree, then these bits aren't yours - ie they won't be listed in the TA10.
If arguing over this is delaying the sale and even running the risk of scuppering it, then I'd personally just stop talking about it and proceed to completion asap, with the usual 'vacant possession'.
If this stuff - inc the cars - is left behind on completion, then you should photograph them, and give a 'reasonable' opportunity to the seller to remove them, in a recordable way. If they fail to do so, they are yours to keep or dispose of. So, you could end up with it all.
Anything you don't want, you can dispose of - sell or dump. For the latter, you can even claim the actual costs for doing so, if so inclined.
There is a small risk of being challenged by the 'owner' should you dispose of these items, hence it being important for you to record your request they 'be removed by the Xth or else they will be disposed of' in an unambiguous manner. Again, should bolshie guy make a fuss, he'd likely cite in his argument that he'd made his intentions to retain these items very clear pre-sale. Whether he'd succeed with this, I have no idea, but it could add to the complexities.
So, I think if I were you, and some/all of the household items were of genuine use/desirable to keep, then I might consider a lock-up to hold them for a couple of weeks to a month after the end 'collect' date to hold them a bit longer whilst I cleaned and decorated the house. After this, you should be completely safe.
Any junk, sell or give it away - for the latter, screenshot the 'free' ads. In essence, it should be yours and ok to do this, but cover your bottom to a good degree 'cos you 'know' that there was some seller contention in this situation, and one bloke wasn't 100% happy.
The cars are more tricky, I think, since they may be perceived as having a greater value, documented ownership, and you are also not allowed to leave them elsewhere - so if putting them on the road, make sure you are not seen... (ok, just don't do it). Usually the LA will have powers to remove vehicles if provably 'abandoned', but they are under financial pressure so may be reluctant to do this - you may wish to ask them now so you are pre-informed. It could otherwise be tricky.
Bottom line, I don't know.
This is pretty good; https://www.samconveyancing.co.uk/news/conveyancing/seller-left-personal-property-in-house-what-can-you-legally-do-6018