CEL issued me with a PCN for not paying within 10minutes

Lionredblue

Hi I have seen a few similar threads, but none that have updated on their outcome yet.
The car park is privately owned but right in front of the entrance to a council arts centre, it is all fenced and looks like it part of the centre, the council have said they don't own it and I have been waiting over 4 weeks for them to tell me who does so I can contact them.
I parked up and tried to pay but the only way to pay is via the terrible Ring and Pay app.
The signage as you drive in only stated terms and condition apply it does not stated the 10 min or pay £100, these signs are spread in various places around the car park and not clear from a car.
As per may others on the threads, I struggled to use the app as you have to register the payment card with a 0 transaction first. I was already over the 10mins by the time I parked,  realised there were no pay stations and read the sign and activated the app. I tried to call to explain the issue but it was a Saturday so office closed, I then emailed them to say was struggling to pay on the app, then again to confirm that I had managed to make my payment.  I used the car park for 48mins, I paid the 1 hr fee of £2 just over 30 mins after I entered. - I have a receipt.
The PCN arrived, which I appealed on the fact I paid for the time I used the car park, the unreasonable 10 min time limit and the lack of the 10min warning on the entrance it was rejected
I appealed to POPLA - it was rejected
Pic of signage CEL provided as evidence is attached 
I then asked the council run Arts Centre the privately owned car park is in front of if they can cancel the PCN - they said I could have if I had gone to them first, but couldn't as I had appealed it with CEL
The PCN was now at £100 as I had missed the chance to pay the reduced £60 as it was over 14days.
As per BPA website I complained to CEL that they had chased payment while I was appealing with POPLA they just said sorry, I also then complained the sign on the entrance should make the 10min time restiction clear in line with BPA guidelines, they just replied quoting a load of points that meant nothing to me see below:

Our entry sign states “Phone and Pay. See car park signs for term & conditions’’, The entrance sign is in compliance with the requirement set out on Appendix B. British Parking Association Code Of Practice Appendix B,  Entrance states that "There must be at least one item from Group 1. But no more than three items from Group 1..."   We confirm that the entrance sign in compliance with the BPA Code of Practice.

There are many clear and visible signs in the car park advising motorists of the terms and conditions. It is the motorist’s duty to read the signs and act in accordance with the terms and conditions.

Drivers have an obligation to check for signage when parking on private land. Please note that, the signs do not need to be placed directly in the position where they parked, they simply must be placed throughout the site so that drivers are given the chance to read them (BPA Code of Practice, p9.2, and see also BPA Code of Practice, 19.3). 

The charge that has been levied is clearly stated on the signage around the site. Furthermore, it falls within the British Parking Association's recommended guidelines for car park enforcement.

The Parking Charge remains valid as the ticket was correctly issued in accordance with the terms and conditions stated.

I have has another more threatening letter telling me to pay £140 withing 14 days or they will involve a 3rd party debt collector which will increase the cost to £170 and they may have to take me to court.
I have contacted my MP who is contacting the council on my behalf to try and get the land owners details to then contact them.
I see all the advice telling me not to pay the PCN, but I am getting cold feet about potentially the time to keep challenging this and having to pay all the costs of court etc
Am I correct that as they accepted the £2 to pay for the 1hr rather than reject it means that their pay within 10 min terms where no longer valid - if this is not correct, do I still have a high chance to win this in court if they pursue me for payment ?
Should I keep ignoring their letters or should I reply ask them where the increase from £100 to £140 has come and tell them not to waste time with their debt collectors and just take me straight to court ?

Thank you 

Coupon-mad

Easy to defend. The term to pay within 10 minutes was hidden in small print and also not possible to comply with. Nevertheless you paid for your time. That's a winning defence.

Obviously you don't pay £140 nor £170.

Just ignore the threatograms.  No different advice than you see in the NEWBIES thread but we really wish you'd just done 'Plan A' first:

"I then asked the council run Arts Centre the privately owned car park is in front of if they can cancel the PCN - they said I could have if I had gone to them first, but couldn't as I had appealed it with CEL."

Yep.

Had you come here you'd have seen it easily cancelled within days because appeal is NOT what to do first. Never mind!

Come back ONLY if you get a LBC or court claim form.

Don't show us the £170 letters, please.

Lionredblue

thank you for your help

Coupon-mad

Lionredblue said:

thank you for your help

Stay strong. No paying.

Honestly easy to defend.

Lionredblue

Hi I have now received a Letter Before Action - claim for debt from CEL, is this the same as a LBC ? I have attached the cover letter and the pages they have asked me to complete. I have see others being advised to respond via email is this still advise ? When I reply to dispute the claim , do I use the same template pinned in the newbies thread ? Do I keep my dispute points to: I paid and include my receipt or include any of the following :
I was a passenger in my partners company car, but made the mistake of responding to the first PCN he received at work  as I was the person who paid the car park fee.
We did pay just not within in  10 mins - issues with the app as no cash option, I have emails during the time i was trying to pay and then another to confirm I had managed to pay so they could have stopped the PCN being issued.
The pic of sign as you drive that does not state you must pay within 10 mins - just general terms and conditions

Thanks in advance

Car1980

You'll get a claim whatever you do, so a quick email saying "I am in receipt of your LoC, deny the alleged charge and look forward to defending your court claim." would do.

Ignore all the gumph, which is just designed to intimidate.

Coupon-mad

Why not just use the one in the MSE Guide?

Just click on the little red 'MSE link' in the small 'Parking Ticket Appeals' banner at the top of this page which leads to the MSE Guide to fight PCNs.

Same info is shown in both this forum and in that Guide, as regards pre-action reply. Then await the Claim Form.

Consistent advice here is easy to find and not just from random strangers. The MSE Guide is official 'Martin Lewis backed' advice.

And even though this is stressful and new for you: please then do the government's Public Consultation. We need every poster to complete this vital Consultation before the deadline.

See this thread: -

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6617396/parking-code-of-practice-consultation-8-weeks-from-11th-july-2025/p1

We understand that you may need some pointers. It looks laborious, we get that. It doesn't matter; no knowledge is needed except re your own experiences so you can call out a scam industry and you'll protect millions of motorists and help change the law.

I've written some guidance on that thread. I have covered almost every question, providing ideas if you agree with our stance on things like DRFs, which we say must be banned.

Ordinary people like you are falling victim to this scam 15 million times per annum. Motorists need your voice added please.

CLOSES ON FRIDAY. Just days to go.