Ill Parent - Financial & Estate Planning

thegreenone

I had a joint account with my late Mum with my bank not hers.  She kept her account completely to herself.  She was very financially savvy and this was her funeral fund or if she needed care/became incapable of running her financial affairs.  We did POA.  She decided it should be with my bank so it would show on my internet banking and in case of emergency I could pay for immediate care, funeral etc.  Also there was a branch right next to the cafe where we always had coffee after shopping!

It sat there, with Mum paying money in quite regularly and remained untouched until her handwriting deteriorated and the cheques she wrote out to me (for various shopping) were ineligible and returned.  I arranged with Mum that I would pay for her shopping and take the money from the account, giving her all the receipts and a print out of the statement each week.  

When she died the account was changed into my sole name and I used the money for her funeral, solicitors fees for probate, the sale of her flat, some minor bequests and all other expenses (paying off utility bills) in winding up her estate.

Short story Long:  have a separate joint account with your Parent.  If they need to move money over, they can do it by cheque into the new account or a private meeting at their bank, without you present in the room.

jmr95

elsien said:

It really is about the context.  If you've always taken luxury holidays then you can argue it's just carrying on what you've always done. Ditto a big holiday for a big event.  But if you've always lived carefully and suddenly start treating all your family to expensive holidays for  no obvious reason, that's when questions are more likely to be asked.
For me, its a balance. Yes I want to live well now, within limits. But I've also seen the difference having money can make to people in care homes where they have to pay extra for staff support to go out into the community, or get a better quality place. So I'm not wanting to spend it all so the state will fund me because I've seen what that minimum level of support can look like. Not always - some are ok - but often enough. 

That is a very valuable perspective that I - and probably a lot of others - had not considered.

I appreciate my initial tone was perhaps a little divisive on this topic, but it was sort of the point, as I find it encourages better discussion. 

This thread has been really helpful, appreciate all the input.

sheramber

Your first post implies you withdrawing money your parent has paid in. 

Do you mean you will consider that your money, rather than your  parent’s?

There is no £3k allowance  to allow you to withdraw money for your own use.

There is a gift allowance of £3k for IHT but you say the estate will  not be liable to IHT so that is irrelevant.

bunnygo

as others note - as you have the LPA, register it with the bank concerned and then you can run the account legitimately with your mother's consent. Do NOT register it with the OPG unless she starts to lose capacity. Doing this with the bank can be a faff, depending on the competence of the people that you speak to, but once done it works fine.

This will give you online access and your own bank card for the account; she can still use hers if she likes. Keep full records of all payments you make (just a notebook is fine).

Savvy_Sue

bunnygo said:

as others note - as you have the LPA, register it with the bank concerned and then you can run the account legitimately with your mother's consent. Do NOT register it with the OPG unless she starts to lose capacity. Doing this with the bank can be a faff, depending on the competence of the people that you speak to, but once done it works fine.

I may be misunderstanding, but I thought the current advice WAS to register the LPA with the OPG as soon as it's drawn up, and only send it to the banks when you needed to use it. And that you COULD use it before the donor lost capacity, with their agreement.

elsien

Savvy_Sue said:

bunnygo said:

as others note - as you have the LPA, register it with the bank concerned and then you can run the account legitimately with your mother's consent. Do NOT register it with the OPG unless she starts to lose capacity. Doing this with the bank can be a faff, depending on the competence of the people that you speak to, but once done it works fine.

I may be misunderstanding, but I thought the current advice WAS to register the LPA with the OPG as soon as it's drawn up, and only send it to the banks when you needed to use it. And that you COULD use it before the donor lost capacity, with their agreement.

You are correct. It does need to be registered before it can be used, whether the person has capacity or not. 

https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/register

I wonder if @bunnygo is thinking of the old EPA which are only registered when the person does lose capacity? 

bunnygo

very belated apologies here - I am indeed using an EPA which isn't registered as donor has capacity. I didn't realise that the system is different for LPA, and it took several tries at the information before I understood this! Thanks for correcting and apologies again.

pollypenny

My father simply made me a signatory on his accounts.  I managed his bills and paying for his residential home by phone banking usually. 

Keep_pedalling

pollypenny said:

My father simply made me a signatory on his accounts.  I managed his bills and paying for his residential home by phone banking usually. 

That is not the best option as it should no longer be used if the account holder looses mental capacity. Setting up LPAs should be something we should all do but like wills most don’t. 

Savvy_Sue

bunnygo said:

very belated apologies here - I am indeed using an EPA which isn't registered as donor has capacity. I didn't realise that the system is different for LPA, and it took several tries at the information before I understood this! Thanks for correcting and apologies again.

Is your father able to set up LPA now? There are a couple of reasons for this:

1. you could register it immediately, before you NEED to use it, which is wise because it takes some time to do so and you can be left in limbo

2. you have an EPA, but waiting until you NEED to register it, you may find it takes some time to do so, and you can be left in limbo

3. See below for the disadvantages of relying on one of the 'easier' methods

Keep_pedalling said:

pollypenny said:

My father simply made me a signatory on his accounts.  I managed his bills and paying for his residential home by phone banking usually. 

That is not the best option as it should no longer be used if the account holder looses mental capacity. Setting up LPAs should be something we should all do but like wills most don’t. 

If the bank discovers that the main account holder - or either one of the joint account holders if you've used that method - has lost capacity, then their correct response is to freeze the account, to protect the person who has lost capacity. That really can take some time to sort out!

As long as your father retains capacity, setting up an LPA shouldn't be too difficult and it does not require a solicitor. The only reason I can see NOT to do this is if your father is not expected to live much longer - but having said that, living in the cycle of "this will probably be their last birthday but they probably won't see Christmas" and "well, they made Christmas but they probably won't see their birthday" for the last two years, nothing is certain! 

The other advantage of setting up an LPA is that your father could appoint you jointly and severally with someone else, so that if anything happens to YOU there will be someone able to act for him.