Durham Train Station Car Parking Charge (FMS)

Dma76

Hi,

I've read the many threads but am still looking for advice if possible please.

The car park in question is barriered, the car park  itself was not entered, the anpr cameras are at the entrance and exit to the tunnel which leads under the platform and impossbile to see signs as you enter due to the nature of the stations layout. I'm assuming the charge is for over staying on drop off and collection (35 mins), train was delayed and the vehicle was blocked in by a taxi to compound matters, now obviously the parking company won't care about that and the fee should have been paid, an oversight, but shouldn't the driver at the time have been given the option to pay the original charge rather than the invoice?

To compound matters the vehicle is leased, the invoice was sent to the leasing company who quite rightly said they weren't the drivers but here are the nominated person details (Attached). I'm worried how they have worded this because in the letter from the parking company they say I have been identified, the key here is the use of the word nominated, does that actually identify me as the driver or just the person who holds the lease agreement?

The original contravention date was 10/08/24, I recieved the notice 05/09/24. Have I got any chance of beating this in appeal or am I better off just paying?

Thanks

Grizebeck

Why would we advise paying it

Gr1pr

The lease company Tusker stated that it was a penalty notice , but FMS refer to it as a Parking Charge at a train station 

The lease company were incorrect in their wording, but we have not seen the NTK PCN letter to confirm it 

The lease company have no idea who was driving, they weren't there, so you are nominated as hirer because you are the lessee, I could have been the driver for all anyone knows, only you know who was driving, but should be keeping it a secret, especially on here, a public forum which anyone can read 

The driver had the issues you described 

You can read about the differences in this post by travel over in their thread, although theirs was not at a train station, but private property, so not subject to any bylaws, but still an IPC AOS member 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6548873/pcn-paid-for-by-leasing-company/p10

I would suggest that the parking company didn't include the hire agreement or lease agreement with the notice to driver letter above, the train station is likely under bylaws, so no POFA schedule 4, no keeper liability 

There are plenty of hire and lease recent cases on here you can and should study to get up to speed , but do not expect any first or secondary appeals to be successful , especially because Popla is not available to you, but do study the following thread to understand the background information regarding parking charge notices versus Penalty Notices

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80771687#Comment_80771687?utm_source=community-search&utm_medium=organic-search&utm_term=ncp+GAA+station+


Nobody on here would tell you to pay, its mse, money saving experts, not naive walking dead zombies !

LDast

A letter addressed to the Hirer that is labeled as a "Notice to Driver" does not count as a valid Notice to Hirer (NtH) under PoFA. For FMS to hold the hirer liable under PoFA, the notice must specifically be a Notice to Hirer and must comply with the requirements outlined in Paragraph 14 of Schedule 4 of PoFA.

A "Notice to Driver" (NtD) is issued to the person who was driving at the time of the parking event. PoFA Paragraph 7(4) specifically outlines how an NtD must be given. 

7(1) A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to driver for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(a) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.

(4)The notice must be given—

   (a) before the vehicle is removed from the relevant land after the end of the period of parking to which the notice relates, and

   (b)while the vehicle is stationary,

by affixing it to the vehicle or by handing it to a person appearing to be in charge of the vehicle.

No one pays these scamming vermin and FMS have failed to comply with the requirements of PoFA to be able to hold the Hirer liable. Any response must only be as the Hirer. No "I did this or that", only the "the driver did this or that".

You decline to identify the driver as there is no legal obligation to do so to an unregulated private company. FMS are not an "authority" that can issue "fines" or "penalties" and no "offence" has been committed.

The Hirer tells them to sit on a sharp stick and rotate. Come back if they are ever stupid enough to try and claim that the Hirer owes them a debt. The ultimate dispute resolution service, the small claims track in the county court would see them getting spanked.

Coupon-mad

Dma76 said:

Appeal AS ADMITTED DRIVER, so that the case is hooked to you.

Don't use a template - just say what happened. Then either try IAS or totally ignore it, like in the UKCPS thread yesterday. All IPC cases are the same. Ignore in the end.

The appeal will likely fail because the IAS is deemed a kangaroo court.  But you DON'T PAY! At no point will you pay this.

BTW I've never heard of this company in my life and would have said ignore them from the start, but with a leased car, you need to be known to be the driver to make sure they can't write to the lease firm again. 

Grizebeck

Coupon-mad said:

Dma76 said:

Appeal AS ADMITTED DRIVER, so that the case is hooked to you.

Don't use a template - just say what happened. Then either try IAS or totally ignore it, like in the UKCPS thread yesterday. All IPC cases are the same. Ignore in the end.

The appeal will likely fail because the IAS is deemed a kangaroo court.  But you DON'T PAY! At no point will you pay this.

BTW I've never heard if this company in my life and would have said ignore them from the start, but with a leased car, you need to be known to be the driver to make sure they can't write to the lease firm again. 

They have been at this station for quite a while, there a lot of these small firms around now

Coupon-mad

Small fry though. Ignorable once this OP has fully hooked them away from the lease firm.

Umkomaas

Coupon-mad said:

Dma76 said:

BTW I've never heard if this company in my life and would have said ignore them from the start, but with a leased car, you need to be known to be the driver to make sure they can't write to the lease firm again. 

They don't seem to have much idea about what they're doing!

Dma76

Gr1pr said:

The lease company Tusker stated that it was a penalty notice , but FMS refer to it as a Parking Charge at a train station 

The lease company were incorrect in their wording, but we have not seen the NTK PCN letter to confirm it 

The lease company have no idea who was driving, they weren't there, so you are nominated as hirer because you are the lessee, I could have been the driver for all anyone knows, only you know who was driving, but should be keeping it a secret, especially on here, a public forum which anyone can read 

The driver had the issues you described 

You can read about the differences in this post by travel over in their thread, although theirs was not at a train station, but private property, so not subject to any bylaws, but still an IPC AOS member 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6548873/pcn-paid-for-by-leasing-company/p10

I would suggest that the parking company didn't include the hire agreement or lease agreement with the notice to driver letter above, the train station is likely under bylaws, so no POFA schedule 4, no keeper liability  This is correct, the only letter received to myself was the invoice.

There are plenty of hire and lease recent cases on here you can and should study to get up to speed , but do not expect any first or secondary appeals to be successful , especially because Popla is not available to you, but do study the following thread to understand the background information regarding parking charge notices versus Penalty Notices

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80771687#Comment_80771687?utm_source=community-search&utm_medium=organic-search&utm_term=ncp+GAA+station+


Nobody on here would tell you to pay, its mse, money saving experts, not naive walking dead zombies !

Hi, thanks for your reply and information, I've attached the original parking charge notice that was sent to the lease company, you are correct in pointing out that the lease comapny has used incorrect wording, the oiginal letter clear states it's a parking charge notice. I'll have a good read of the links you've supplied.

Dma76

LDast said:

A letter addressed to the Hirer that is labeled as a "Notice to Driver" does not count as a valid Notice to Hirer (NtH) under PoFA. For FMS to hold the hirer liable under PoFA, the notice must specifically be a Notice to Hirer and must comply with the requirements outlined in Paragraph 14 of Schedule 4 of PoFA.

A "Notice to Driver" (NtD) is issued to the person who was driving at the time of the parking event. PoFA Paragraph 7(4) specifically outlines how an NtD must be given. 

7(1) A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to driver for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(a) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.

(4)The notice must be given—

   (a) before the vehicle is removed from the relevant land after the end of the period of parking to which the notice relates, and

   (b)while the vehicle is stationary,

by affixing it to the vehicle or by handing it to a person appearing to be in charge of the vehicle.

No one pays these scamming vermin and FMS have failed to comply with the requirements of PoFA to be able to hold the Hirer liable. Any response must only be as the Hirer. No "I did this or that", only the "the driver did this or that".

You decline to identify the driver as there is no legal obligation to do so to an unregulated private company. FMS are not an "authority" that can issue "fines" or "penalties" and no "offence" has been committed.

The Hirer tells them to sit on a sharp stick and rotate. Come back if they are ever stupid enough to try and claim that the Hirer owes them a debt. The ultimate dispute resolution service, the small claims track in the county court would see them getting spanked.

Thank you for taking the time to reply and providing advice. I've already stated to the lease customer in writing that I do not wish for them to pay the parking charge notice as I intend to appeal.

I'll point out what you have told me above re PoFA in my appeal response and see what happens.

Dma76

Coupon-mad said:

Small fry though. Ignorable once this OP has fully hooked them away from the lease firm.

I'm confused now, I thought the way to fight this was by not disclosing who the driver was, is it not sufficient to tell the lease firm not to pay it and that as the hirer of the vehicle I intend to appeal the parking charge notice? Thanks for the advice by the way.