Council tax moving from rented to owning

Bookworm105

Sarahspangles said:

Bookworm105 said:

Sarahspangles said:

Your ex landlord may want to (try to?) pass on their Council tax charge but you shouldn’t be paying it direct. Your landlord can attempt to mitigate their loss by letting the property.

no,
the tenant is legally liable for CT during the life of a tenancy, Do you understand the basis of CT? It is subject to the hierarchy of liability whereby a tenant is above a LL.
the LL has no legal requirement to mitigate losses during a notice period since by definition the property is still the tenancy of the person during the notice period

I do understand CT, I worked for an LA for years including doing some top tier complaints work interfacing with the LGO. My experience is however out of date.

The advice I received at the time I moved was that (unless I owned a second home), I should only be liable for the CT at the property where I was resident. The question was literally ‘Where will you be sleeping on x date’. Perhaps it has changed since then, but liability to the charging authority is different from the contractual arrangement between landlord and tenant. The contract allows the landlord to relet so the CT could be overpaid in a scenario where the tenant leaves early. 

Council tax liability regulations have not changed since the legislation came into force in 1992.
You seem under the impression that the act of moving out ends the tenant's liability and it reverts to the LL. It doesn't whilst the tenancy is still in place.

The question where will you be sleeping is just someone using simple language to directly force a simple answer that would apply in the vast majority of cases. They could have gone off into the realms of possible relief for the property being empty & unfurnished on the night that the purchase completed if you had mentioned another address, but you saying you will be sleeping there solves the issue and saves time/

the hierarchy of liability goes from 1 (first person liable) to 6 (last person liable)
being liable is one issue, whether you can claim relief from that liability is another 

1. a resident with a freehold interest in the whole or any part of the property (ie its owner).

2. a resident with a leasehold interest, including an assured or assured shorthold tenancy which is not inferior to another such interest held by another resident (ie a leasehold owner or a tenant)

3. a resident who has a statutory tenancy, secure tenancy or introductory tenancy

4. a resident who is a licensee with a contractual license to occupy

5. any other resident, including a squatter. 
   

6. owner of the building (ie not resident in it)

Local Government Finance Act 1992 (legislation.gov.uk)

If the tenant has moved out before the tenancy ends then, like a freeholder, they are entitled to claim one of the available reliefs. Whether they get that relief is a matter for the facts of the case and what amounts that individual council permits.

Shelter Legal - Council tax liability after a tenant moves out - Shelter England

BarelySentientAI

Bookworm105 said:

Sarahspangles said:

Bookworm105 said:

Sarahspangles said:

Your ex landlord may want to (try to?) pass on their Council tax charge but you shouldn’t be paying it direct. Your landlord can attempt to mitigate their loss by letting the property.

no,
the tenant is legally liable for CT during the life of a tenancy, Do you understand the basis of CT? It is subject to the hierarchy of liability whereby a tenant is above a LL.
the LL has no legal requirement to mitigate losses during a notice period since by definition the property is still the tenancy of the person during the notice period

I do understand CT, I worked for an LA for years including doing some top tier complaints work interfacing with the LGO. My experience is however out of date.

The advice I received at the time I moved was that (unless I owned a second home), I should only be liable for the CT at the property where I was resident. The question was literally ‘Where will you be sleeping on x date’. Perhaps it has changed since then, but liability to the charging authority is different from the contractual arrangement between landlord and tenant. The contract allows the landlord to relet so the CT could be overpaid in a scenario where the tenant leaves early. 

Council tax liability regulations have not changed since the legislation came into force in 1992.
You seem under the impression that the act of moving out ends the tenant's liability and it reverts to the LL. It doesn't whilst the tenancy is still in place.

The question where will you be sleeping is just someone using simple language to directly force a simple answer that would apply in the vast majority of cases. They could have gone off into the realms of possible relief for the property being empty & unfurnished on the night that the purchase completed if you had mentioned another address, but you saying you will be sleeping there solves the issue and saves time/

the hierarchy of liability goes from 1 (first person liable) to 5 (last person liable)
being liable is one issue, whether you can claim relief from that liability is another 

1. a resident with a freehold interest in the whole or any part of the property (ie its owner).

2. a resident with a leasehold interest, including an assured or assured shorthold tenancy which is not inferior to another such interest held by another resident (ie a leasehold owner or a tenant)

3. a resident who has a statutory tenancy, secure tenancy or introductory tenancy

4. a resident who is a licensee with a contractual license to occupy

5. any other resident, including a squatter. 
   

6. owner of the building (ie not resident in it)

Local Government Finance Act 1992 (legislation.gov.uk)

If the tenant has moved out before the tenancy ends then, like a freeholder, they are entitled to claim one of the available reliefs. Whether they get that relief is a matter for the facts of the case and what amounts that individual council permits.

Shelter Legal - Council tax liability after a tenant moves out - Shelter England

I think that the confusion arises from considering whether If they have moved out, then are they "a resident"?

The answer is still yes, for the purposes of CT, as your links confirm, but can see how someone would read the hierarchy and think "I'm not resident because I've moved out, so it's not my problem any more".  The common understanding of 'resident' being along the lines of 'where you actually live'.

Kim_13

horsewithnoname said:

Bookworm105 said:

Sarahspangles said:

Your ex landlord may want to (try to?) pass on their Council tax charge but you shouldn’t be paying it direct. Your landlord can attempt to mitigate their loss by letting the property.

no,
the tenant is legally liable for CT during the life of a tenancy, Do you understand the basis of CT? It is subject to the hierarchy of liability whereby a tenant is above a LL.
the LL has no legal requirement to mitigate losses during a notice period since by definition the property is still the tenancy of the person during the notice period

No chance of this landlord mitigating anything! 

Thanks, I’ll tell them to check with the council, the council website is less than helpful on the subject. 

In which case all that can be done is to stop the LL having their cake and eating it by not handing the keys back until the final day of the notice period. They may still do to an extent if they think the tenant won’t be using the property and are fully moved out already, by going in with their own keys to redecorate while not having to pay the CT themselves, but it stops them moving someone else straight in and getting 2x rent. If the LL wants earlier access to re-let, they could return some of the rent for the notice period (with which the tenant could pay the council tax charge for any days before the replacement tenant actually moves in and have some left over.) Unless the LL agrees to an early termination of the tenancy in writing, which it sounds like they won’t, liability is the tenants until the end of the notice period. Whether they actually have to pay is between them and the council, but the majority of councils will probably want paying regardless of the situation.

It’s an extra burden if they have to pay 2x CT on top of the rent that is effectively wasted by an overlap, but it can make moving easier (e.g. able to do it with a car themselves rather than paying a removals service.)

Kim_13

Sarahspangles said:

Bookworm105 said:

Sarahspangles said:

Your ex landlord may want to (try to?) pass on their Council tax charge but you shouldn’t be paying it direct. Your landlord can attempt to mitigate their loss by letting the property.

no,
the tenant is legally liable for CT during the life of a tenancy, Do you understand the basis of CT? It is subject to the hierarchy of liability whereby a tenant is above a LL.
the LL has no legal requirement to mitigate losses during a notice period since by definition the property is still the tenancy of the person during the notice period

I do understand CT, I worked for an LA for years including doing some top tier complaints work interfacing with the LGO. My experience is however out of date.

The advice I received at the time I moved was that (unless I owned a second home), I should only be liable for the CT at the property where I was resident. The question was literally ‘Where will you be sleeping on x date’. Perhaps it has changed since then, but liability to the charging authority is different from the contractual arrangement between landlord and tenant. The contract allows the landlord to relet so the CT could be overpaid in a scenario where the tenant leaves early. 

CT won’t be overpaid, the council will bill the LL from the day after the tenancy ends until such time they are advised that someone has moved in/bought the property. If someone else advises the council that they have moved in in the interim, they will bill that person from the date they say they moved in and refund the former tenant any overpaid amount (or deduct it from the amount outstanding if the former tenant hasn’t paid yet.)

A new tenant might be told by the LL to tell the council that they moved in the day after the former tenancy end date, and if they do so, the former tenant would be paying when the new one should be, but the council won’t get 2x CT. The former tenant could prevent this by not handing the keys back until the last day, or by reaching an agreement with the landlord to return the keys early on the refund of a portion of the rent for the notice period (and getting this in writing, in case the new tenant disputes that they were the tenant for any dates covered by the former tenant’s notice period.)

horsewithnoname

Bookworm105 said:

Sarahspangles said:

Bookworm105 said:

Sarahspangles said:

Your ex landlord may want to (try to?) pass on their Council tax charge but you shouldn’t be paying it direct. Your landlord can attempt to mitigate their loss by letting the property.

no,
the tenant is legally liable for CT during the life of a tenancy, Do you understand the basis of CT? It is subject to the hierarchy of liability whereby a tenant is above a LL.
the LL has no legal requirement to mitigate losses during a notice period since by definition the property is still the tenancy of the person during the notice period

I do understand CT, I worked for an LA for years including doing some top tier complaints work interfacing with the LGO. My experience is however out of date.

The advice I received at the time I moved was that (unless I owned a second home), I should only be liable for the CT at the property where I was resident. The question was literally ‘Where will you be sleeping on x date’. Perhaps it has changed since then, but liability to the charging authority is different from the contractual arrangement between landlord and tenant. The contract allows the landlord to relet so the CT could be overpaid in a scenario where the tenant leaves early. 

Council tax liability regulations have not changed since the legislation came into force in 1992.
You seem under the impression that the act of moving out ends the tenant's liability and it reverts to the LL. It doesn't whilst the tenancy is still in place.

The question where will you be sleeping is just someone using simple language to directly force a simple answer that would apply in the vast majority of cases. They could have gone off into the realms of possible relief for the property being empty & unfurnished on the night that the purchase completed if you had mentioned another address, but you saying you will be sleeping there solves the issue and saves time/

the hierarchy of liability goes from 1 (first person liable) to 5 (last person liable)
being liable is one issue, whether you can claim relief from that liability is another 

1. a resident with a freehold interest in the whole or any part of the property (ie its owner).

2. a resident with a leasehold interest, including an assured or assured shorthold tenancy which is not inferior to another such interest held by another resident (ie a leasehold owner or a tenant)

3. a resident who has a statutory tenancy, secure tenancy or introductory tenancy

4. a resident who is a licensee with a contractual license to occupy

5. any other resident, including a squatter. 
   

6. owner of the building (ie not resident in it)

Local Government Finance Act 1992 (legislation.gov.uk)

If the tenant has moved out before the tenancy ends then, like a freeholder, they are entitled to claim one of the available reliefs. Whether they get that relief is a matter for the facts of the case and what amounts that individual council permits.

Shelter Legal - Council tax liability after a tenant moves out - Shelter England

Thanks that link to shelter is helpful 

Myci85

Thank you for posting this. We're in the same position, and I know years ago when I worked in a letting agent our local council applied an exemption for 6 months for empty, unfurnished properties, so I assumed that was still the case, but I've checked now and they've clearly changed their policy now as it clearly states 100% rates are due.

BarelySentientAI

Myci85 said:

Thank you for posting this. We're in the same position, and I know years ago when I worked in a letting agent our local council applied an exemption for 6 months for empty, unfurnished properties, so I assumed that was still the case, but I've checked now and they've clearly changed their policy now as it clearly states 100% rates are due.

Some of them are moving towards 200% rates a lot earlier than they used to as well.

saajan_12

OP, any reason for you / friend waiting to serve notice upon completion and then immediately moving? They could mitigate their own CT (and other costs) by
- serving notice upon exchange (and still been safe if anything fell through)
- scheduling the move date depending on which property can be unfurnished for most of that month (and which council gives a discount for empty properties)

Myci85

saajan_12 said:

OP, any reason for you / friend waiting to serve notice upon completion and then immediately moving? They could mitigate their own CT (and other costs) by
- serving notice upon exchange (and still been safe if anything fell through)
- scheduling the move date depending on which property can be unfurnished for most of that month (and which council gives a discount for empty properties)

Not all councils give discounts for empty, unfurnished properties anymore. Mine used to, but no longer does. There have to be additional criteria met.

newsgroupmonkey_

Myci85 said:

saajan_12 said:

OP, any reason for you / friend waiting to serve notice upon completion and then immediately moving? They could mitigate their own CT (and other costs) by
- serving notice upon exchange (and still been safe if anything fell through)
- scheduling the move date depending on which property can be unfurnished for most of that month (and which council gives a discount for empty properties)

Not all councils give discounts for empty, unfurnished properties anymore. Mine used to, but no longer does. There have to be additional criteria met.

My fairly recent experience was to write to the council and explain the scenario.

In fairness, in my application, we were the opposite way around. Although we'd bought a house, we stayed in the rented place for another few weeks as it meant we were able to do some necessary works to be able to move in.

Our house had previously some considerable work done for the heavily disabled gentleman that had previously lived there and we needed to remove things like a stair lift to be able to move in.