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Can't open savings account

13

Comments

  • Vendee
    Vendee Posts: 219 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Combo Breaker
    Repeatedly saying something is discriminatory doesn't make it so. Lets run with your opinion that it is - it is not unlawful to discriminate unless it's a protected characteristic, which is not the case here.

    Call it lazy, or whatever, with Atom being an online only presence they are not interested in other methods.
    Repeatedly saying that its not discriminatory doesn't mean that it isn't. Discrimination does not have to take a legal form but if you wish to do so, I would suggest Atom's policy is age discrimination because it is mainly older customers who don't have a mortgage/pay rent/have bank loans/have credit card debt, that are affected. My wife is on the electoral roll, has a passport/driving licence/birth certificate/National Insurance number....all the things that can be used to verify the identity of anyone.
  • molerat
    molerat Posts: 34,743 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 9 September 2024 at 3:55PM
    Then use one of the high street bricks and mortar institutions that have the facility to check physical ID documents rather than one of the modern on line only ones that do not have that facility.
    MrsM does not have a photo driving licence, passport, or credit card, loans or debt  We do not have a mortgage or pay rent.  She has never been rejected for a savings account and has passed several electronic ID checks as witnessed by searches on her credit file
    There is obviously something amiss with your wife's file that is scaring off these institutions.
  • Nasqueron
    Nasqueron Posts: 10,844 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Vendee said:
    Nasqueron said:
    Vendee said:
    Nasqueron said:
    Vendee said:
    So I just put my wife's information into the Transunion credit checker via the MSE link and it came back:- 
    "We can’t provide your credit score because you have a ‘thin credit file’ "
    That doesn't mean she doesn't exist, it just means the bank is using a flawed/cheap/lazy method of confirming her identity. If she was wanting to borrow money then this would be grounds for rejection but not for investing a reasonable amount of money. 
    It is neither flawed, nor cheap, nor lazy - it's a system that has been used for decades to verify identity. If you are unhappy with their business model, use a different firm, their approach to identity verification is their choice and allows them to do their their legally required identity checks/know your customer
    Disagree strongly. They are using a system designed to rate your creditworthiness to verify your identity. It disadvantages people who have done nothing wrong except not having had the need to borrow money in the past 20 years. There are better ways to establish a persons identity, ways that don't exclude a certain group of people. As for using a different firm, she has already tried 2 banks. If they are all using the same credit agency then the results will be the same. They are using a method of verification that unfairly discriminates against a group of people.
    Again it's not a disadvantage at all - if you're on the electoral register and have a bank account in your name, that is all you need - you don't need any credit history to be on the credit agency sites. There are three major agencies in the UK, most firms report to all of them though only use one for credit checks. You need to drop accusations of discrimination, there is none.

    An online bank like Atom can freely choose to use whatever ID checks they are required to by law then any further checks like submitting a photo of your ID in the app and doing a selfie as part of the checks
    I understand that Atom are required by law to establish a clients identity. The method they are choosing to do this is discriminatory. People with insufficient credit history are disbarred from using their services. Your credit history and your identity are completely separate things. 
    This is straight up false, you do not need an extensive credit history for identity checks. If you are on the register and have some financial products such as a current account (without OD), it is reported, same as a mobile phone contract. These are more than sufficient for an ID check

    Sam Vimes' Boots Theory of Socioeconomic Unfairness: 

    People are rich because they spend less money. A poor man buys $10 boots that last a season or two before he's walking in wet shoes and has to buy another pair. A rich man buys $50 boots that are made better and give him 10 years of dry feet. The poor man has spent $100 over those 10 years and still has wet feet.

  • Nasqueron
    Nasqueron Posts: 10,844 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    edited 9 September 2024 at 4:19PM
    Vendee said:
    Repeatedly saying something is discriminatory doesn't make it so. Lets run with your opinion that it is - it is not unlawful to discriminate unless it's a protected characteristic, which is not the case here.

    Call it lazy, or whatever, with Atom being an online only presence they are not interested in other methods.
    Repeatedly saying that its not discriminatory doesn't mean that it isn't. Discrimination does not have to take a legal form but if you wish to do so, I would suggest Atom's policy is age discrimination because it is mainly older customers who don't have a mortgage/pay rent/have bank loans/have credit card debt, that are affected. My wife is on the electoral roll, has a passport/driving licence/birth certificate/National Insurance number....all the things that can be used to verify the identity of anyone.
    This is again straight up wrong. One it is categorically NOT discrimination, particularly not age discrimination - lots of poor young people do not have credit products as they aren't earning enough to get them just as a significant number of pensioners hold vast wealth - at least 1:4 are millionaires so clearly not going to struggle to get an ID for credit.

    They (young) would face the same barrier to ID check you claim your wife has if it were true (which it isn't - see last post).

    Have you even checked the 3 credit reference agencies to ensure she is setup? Does she have an account in her own name (not the secondary credit card holder but her own bank?)

    Atom are a business, they may well need the passport at a later stage of ID verification as is normal when applying for things - done in an app

    Sam Vimes' Boots Theory of Socioeconomic Unfairness: 

    People are rich because they spend less money. A poor man buys $10 boots that last a season or two before he's walking in wet shoes and has to buy another pair. A rich man buys $50 boots that are made better and give him 10 years of dry feet. The poor man has spent $100 over those 10 years and still has wet feet.

  • Vendee
    Vendee Posts: 219 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Combo Breaker
    Nasqueron said:
    Vendee said:
    Nasqueron said:
    Vendee said:
    Nasqueron said:
    Vendee said:
    So I just put my wife's information into the Transunion credit checker via the MSE link and it came back:- 
    "We can’t provide your credit score because you have a ‘thin credit file’ "
    That doesn't mean she doesn't exist, it just means the bank is using a flawed/cheap/lazy method of confirming her identity. If she was wanting to borrow money then this would be grounds for rejection but not for investing a reasonable amount of money. 
    It is neither flawed, nor cheap, nor lazy - it's a system that has been used for decades to verify identity. If you are unhappy with their business model, use a different firm, their approach to identity verification is their choice and allows them to do their their legally required identity checks/know your customer
    Disagree strongly. They are using a system designed to rate your creditworthiness to verify your identity. It disadvantages people who have done nothing wrong except not having had the need to borrow money in the past 20 years. There are better ways to establish a persons identity, ways that don't exclude a certain group of people. As for using a different firm, she has already tried 2 banks. If they are all using the same credit agency then the results will be the same. They are using a method of verification that unfairly discriminates against a group of people.
    Again it's not a disadvantage at all - if you're on the electoral register and have a bank account in your name, that is all you need - you don't need any credit history to be on the credit agency sites. There are three major agencies in the UK, most firms report to all of them though only use one for credit checks. You need to drop accusations of discrimination, there is none.

    An online bank like Atom can freely choose to use whatever ID checks they are required to by law then any further checks like submitting a photo of your ID in the app and doing a selfie as part of the checks
    I understand that Atom are required by law to establish a clients identity. The method they are choosing to do this is discriminatory. People with insufficient credit history are disbarred from using their services. Your credit history and your identity are completely separate things. 
    This is straight up false, you do not need an extensive credit history for identity checks. If you are on the register and have some financial products such as a current account (without OD), it is reported, same as a mobile phone contract. These are more than sufficient for an ID check
    I'm sorry but Atom have said they have refused the account on the say of TransUnion. TransUnion say she has a thin credit file so they are refusing to verify her identity on the basis of credit score. My wife has had many savings accounts in her name, the most recent, closed only 7 days ago. She has several stocks and shares ISA's in her name. She just doesn't have any history of borrowing money. You say this is false but the hard reality says its not. Its not up for argument, it has been admitted.
  • molerat
    molerat Posts: 34,743 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Vendee said:
    I'm sorry but Atom have said they have refused the account on the say of TransUnion. TransUnion say she has a thin credit file so they are refusing to verify her identity on the basis of credit score. My wife has had many savings accounts in her name, the most recent, closed only 7 days ago. She has several stocks and shares ISA's in her name. She just doesn't have any history of borrowing money. You say this is false but the hard reality says its not. Its not up for argument, it has been admitted.
    They are refusing to verify her on the basis of her file and not her score.  You do not have to be in debt to have a good credit file.  You need reportable accounts.  These include current accounts, credit cards, mobile phone contracts, energy accounts, etc.  The problem is that she has been living in your shadow and not had any of these things on her own.  MrsM doesn't have many accounts but has had current accounts and mobile contracts in her own name and has never had verification problems.

  • Nasqueron
    Nasqueron Posts: 10,844 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Vendee said:
    Nasqueron said:
    Vendee said:
    Nasqueron said:
    Vendee said:
    Nasqueron said:
    Vendee said:
    So I just put my wife's information into the Transunion credit checker via the MSE link and it came back:- 
    "We can’t provide your credit score because you have a ‘thin credit file’ "
    That doesn't mean she doesn't exist, it just means the bank is using a flawed/cheap/lazy method of confirming her identity. If she was wanting to borrow money then this would be grounds for rejection but not for investing a reasonable amount of money. 
    It is neither flawed, nor cheap, nor lazy - it's a system that has been used for decades to verify identity. If you are unhappy with their business model, use a different firm, their approach to identity verification is their choice and allows them to do their their legally required identity checks/know your customer
    Disagree strongly. They are using a system designed to rate your creditworthiness to verify your identity. It disadvantages people who have done nothing wrong except not having had the need to borrow money in the past 20 years. There are better ways to establish a persons identity, ways that don't exclude a certain group of people. As for using a different firm, she has already tried 2 banks. If they are all using the same credit agency then the results will be the same. They are using a method of verification that unfairly discriminates against a group of people.
    Again it's not a disadvantage at all - if you're on the electoral register and have a bank account in your name, that is all you need - you don't need any credit history to be on the credit agency sites. There are three major agencies in the UK, most firms report to all of them though only use one for credit checks. You need to drop accusations of discrimination, there is none.

    An online bank like Atom can freely choose to use whatever ID checks they are required to by law then any further checks like submitting a photo of your ID in the app and doing a selfie as part of the checks
    I understand that Atom are required by law to establish a clients identity. The method they are choosing to do this is discriminatory. People with insufficient credit history are disbarred from using their services. Your credit history and your identity are completely separate things. 
    This is straight up false, you do not need an extensive credit history for identity checks. If you are on the register and have some financial products such as a current account (without OD), it is reported, same as a mobile phone contract. These are more than sufficient for an ID check
    I'm sorry but Atom have said they have refused the account on the say of TransUnion. TransUnion say she has a thin credit file so they are refusing to verify her identity on the basis of credit score. My wife has had many savings accounts in her name, the most recent, closed only 7 days ago. She has several stocks and shares ISA's in her name. She just doesn't have any history of borrowing money. You say this is false but the hard reality says its not. Its not up for argument, it has been admitted.
    Again, it's not a lack of borrowing, it's a lack of data at all - her own current account with no OD for example held for a number of years, would be sufficient. It's not hard reality or arguable - she has no record because of a lack of financial products, not a lack of debt

    Sam Vimes' Boots Theory of Socioeconomic Unfairness: 

    People are rich because they spend less money. A poor man buys $10 boots that last a season or two before he's walking in wet shoes and has to buy another pair. A rich man buys $50 boots that are made better and give him 10 years of dry feet. The poor man has spent $100 over those 10 years and still has wet feet.

  • Vendee
    Vendee Posts: 219 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Combo Breaker
    Nasqueron said:
    Vendee said:
    Nasqueron said:
    Vendee said:
    Nasqueron said:
    Vendee said:
    Nasqueron said:
    Vendee said:
    So I just put my wife's information into the Transunion credit checker via the MSE link and it came back:- 
    "We can’t provide your credit score because you have a ‘thin credit file’ "
    That doesn't mean she doesn't exist, it just means the bank is using a flawed/cheap/lazy method of confirming her identity. If she was wanting to borrow money then this would be grounds for rejection but not for investing a reasonable amount of money. 
    It is neither flawed, nor cheap, nor lazy - it's a system that has been used for decades to verify identity. If you are unhappy with their business model, use a different firm, their approach to identity verification is their choice and allows them to do their their legally required identity checks/know your customer
    Disagree strongly. They are using a system designed to rate your creditworthiness to verify your identity. It disadvantages people who have done nothing wrong except not having had the need to borrow money in the past 20 years. There are better ways to establish a persons identity, ways that don't exclude a certain group of people. As for using a different firm, she has already tried 2 banks. If they are all using the same credit agency then the results will be the same. They are using a method of verification that unfairly discriminates against a group of people.
    Again it's not a disadvantage at all - if you're on the electoral register and have a bank account in your name, that is all you need - you don't need any credit history to be on the credit agency sites. There are three major agencies in the UK, most firms report to all of them though only use one for credit checks. You need to drop accusations of discrimination, there is none.

    An online bank like Atom can freely choose to use whatever ID checks they are required to by law then any further checks like submitting a photo of your ID in the app and doing a selfie as part of the checks
    I understand that Atom are required by law to establish a clients identity. The method they are choosing to do this is discriminatory. People with insufficient credit history are disbarred from using their services. Your credit history and your identity are completely separate things. 
    This is straight up false, you do not need an extensive credit history for identity checks. If you are on the register and have some financial products such as a current account (without OD), it is reported, same as a mobile phone contract. These are more than sufficient for an ID check
    I'm sorry but Atom have said they have refused the account on the say of TransUnion. TransUnion say she has a thin credit file so they are refusing to verify her identity on the basis of credit score. My wife has had many savings accounts in her name, the most recent, closed only 7 days ago. She has several stocks and shares ISA's in her name. She just doesn't have any history of borrowing money. You say this is false but the hard reality says its not. Its not up for argument, it has been admitted.
    Again, it's not a lack of borrowing, it's a lack of data at all - her own current account with no OD for example held for a number of years, would be sufficient. It's not hard reality or arguable - she has no record because of a lack of financial products, not a lack of debt
    There is no lack of data. There is a lack of financial data. Don't forget, this is an identity check, nothing to do with financial data, its just that the bank chose to employ a credit rating company to identify its customers. As mentioned before, the electoral roll, her passport/driving licence/birth cert etc are more tradition methods of checking your identity. The credit agency method is cheap and dirty.
  • Inbetweeners
    Inbetweeners Posts: 77 Forumite
    10 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 10 September 2024 at 2:50PM
    Vendee said:
    Nasqueron said:
    Vendee said:
    Nasqueron said:
    Vendee said:
    Nasqueron said:
    Vendee said:
    Nasqueron said:
    Vendee said:
    So I just put my wife's information into the Transunion credit checker via the MSE link and it came back:- 
    "We can’t provide your credit score because you have a ‘thin credit file’ "
    That doesn't mean she doesn't exist, it just means the bank is using a flawed/cheap/lazy method of confirming her identity. If she was wanting to borrow money then this would be grounds for rejection but not for investing a reasonable amount of money. 
    It is neither flawed, nor cheap, nor lazy - it's a system that has been used for decades to verify identity. If you are unhappy with their business model, use a different firm, their approach to identity verification is their choice and allows them to do their their legally required identity checks/know your customer
    Disagree strongly. They are using a system designed to rate your creditworthiness to verify your identity. It disadvantages people who have done nothing wrong except not having had the need to borrow money in the past 20 years. There are better ways to establish a persons identity, ways that don't exclude a certain group of people. As for using a different firm, she has already tried 2 banks. If they are all using the same credit agency then the results will be the same. They are using a method of verification that unfairly discriminates against a group of people.
    Again it's not a disadvantage at all - if you're on the electoral register and have a bank account in your name, that is all you need - you don't need any credit history to be on the credit agency sites. There are three major agencies in the UK, most firms report to all of them though only use one for credit checks. You need to drop accusations of discrimination, there is none.

    An online bank like Atom can freely choose to use whatever ID checks they are required to by law then any further checks like submitting a photo of your ID in the app and doing a selfie as part of the checks
    I understand that Atom are required by law to establish a clients identity. The method they are choosing to do this is discriminatory. People with insufficient credit history are disbarred from using their services. Your credit history and your identity are completely separate things. 
    This is straight up false, you do not need an extensive credit history for identity checks. If you are on the register and have some financial products such as a current account (without OD), it is reported, same as a mobile phone contract. These are more than sufficient for an ID check
    I'm sorry but Atom have said they have refused the account on the say of TransUnion. TransUnion say she has a thin credit file so they are refusing to verify her identity on the basis of credit score. My wife has had many savings accounts in her name, the most recent, closed only 7 days ago. She has several stocks and shares ISA's in her name. She just doesn't have any history of borrowing money. You say this is false but the hard reality says its not. Its not up for argument, it has been admitted.
    Again, it's not a lack of borrowing, it's a lack of data at all - her own current account with no OD for example held for a number of years, would be sufficient. It's not hard reality or arguable - she has no record because of a lack of financial products, not a lack of debt
    There is no lack of data. There is a lack of financial data. Don't forget, this is an identity check, nothing to do with financial data, its just that the bank chose to employ a credit rating company to identify its customers. As mentioned before, the electoral roll, her passport/driving licence/birth cert etc are more tradition methods of checking your identity. The credit agency method is cheap and dirty.
    It's these 'cheap' methods that contribute to them (sometimes) being the market leaders. Although the 5% 1 year fix advertised on MSE best buys has now reduced to 4.85%

  • Vendee
    Vendee Posts: 219 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Combo Breaker
    Vendee said:
    Nasqueron said:
    Vendee said:
    Nasqueron said:
    Vendee said:
    Nasqueron said:
    Vendee said:
    Nasqueron said:
    Vendee said:
    So I just put my wife's information into the Transunion credit checker via the MSE link and it came back:- 
    "We can’t provide your credit score because you have a ‘thin credit file’ "
    That doesn't mean she doesn't exist, it just means the bank is using a flawed/cheap/lazy method of confirming her identity. If she was wanting to borrow money then this would be grounds for rejection but not for investing a reasonable amount of money. 
    It is neither flawed, nor cheap, nor lazy - it's a system that has been used for decades to verify identity. If you are unhappy with their business model, use a different firm, their approach to identity verification is their choice and allows them to do their their legally required identity checks/know your customer
    Disagree strongly. They are using a system designed to rate your creditworthiness to verify your identity. It disadvantages people who have done nothing wrong except not having had the need to borrow money in the past 20 years. There are better ways to establish a persons identity, ways that don't exclude a certain group of people. As for using a different firm, she has already tried 2 banks. If they are all using the same credit agency then the results will be the same. They are using a method of verification that unfairly discriminates against a group of people.
    Again it's not a disadvantage at all - if you're on the electoral register and have a bank account in your name, that is all you need - you don't need any credit history to be on the credit agency sites. There are three major agencies in the UK, most firms report to all of them though only use one for credit checks. You need to drop accusations of discrimination, there is none.

    An online bank like Atom can freely choose to use whatever ID checks they are required to by law then any further checks like submitting a photo of your ID in the app and doing a selfie as part of the checks
    I understand that Atom are required by law to establish a clients identity. The method they are choosing to do this is discriminatory. People with insufficient credit history are disbarred from using their services. Your credit history and your identity are completely separate things. 
    This is straight up false, you do not need an extensive credit history for identity checks. If you are on the register and have some financial products such as a current account (without OD), it is reported, same as a mobile phone contract. These are more than sufficient for an ID check
    I'm sorry but Atom have said they have refused the account on the say of TransUnion. TransUnion say she has a thin credit file so they are refusing to verify her identity on the basis of credit score. My wife has had many savings accounts in her name, the most recent, closed only 7 days ago. She has several stocks and shares ISA's in her name. She just doesn't have any history of borrowing money. You say this is false but the hard reality says its not. Its not up for argument, it has been admitted.
    Again, it's not a lack of borrowing, it's a lack of data at all - her own current account with no OD for example held for a number of years, would be sufficient. It's not hard reality or arguable - she has no record because of a lack of financial products, not a lack of debt
    There is no lack of data. There is a lack of financial data. Don't forget, this is an identity check, nothing to do with financial data, its just that the bank chose to employ a credit rating company to identify its customers. As mentioned before, the electoral roll, her passport/driving licence/birth cert etc are more tradition methods of checking your identity. The credit agency method is cheap and dirty.
    It's these 'cheap' methods that contribute to them (sometimes) being the market leaders. Although the 5% 1 year fix advertised on MSE best buys has now reduced to 4.85%

    You are probably right. She has now applied for a Tesco fixed saver account. Application completed online and they say they require more information and they are sending a letter by post. She actually worked for Tesco for over 30 years before retiring a couple of years ago. They asked for her clubcard number and that will show that she is a former employee. I have a Tesco credit card which has her as a named card holder. Still, she won't mind providing the additional information that they want. I just wish that Atom had extended the same courtesy to her. 
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