Avice on claim against council tenants pls

simonj123

Hi all,

Would really appreciate some pointers on a money claim I'm likely to pursue with my local council, as follows:

Situation

Rented home to local council, who duly let this to tenants, who then caused £000's damage to windows.

I raised this with the council immediately on reoccupying the property and for the last few years, yes years (long story), I have been going from one director to another, finally the Chief trying to get them to honour their tenancy. I've done the LBA and now doing the claim as a next step.

I have strong evidence, in the letters sent, email trail and what I feel is the killer, a time dated photo showing clearly the damage, so I'm confident I have a case.

What concerns me, is the potential for escalating costs, which for a claim I have filed under £3k is a consideration. If I add interest, it takes it to nearer £5k, but I'm reluctant to add this even though I'm well within my rights as compensation alone many would say, as I just want judgement to effectively say ' just pay the man' and stop being jerks' to the council and feel if I claim for more the judge may perceive it more of a money grab.

My questions I would appreciate some help with are:

1. My understanding of likely costs are initial fee, arrangement fee and hearing fee. Are there other's I need to be aware of ?

2.  I know how long is a piece of proverbial string but do most judges want a quick decision and can they see clearly when a case seems straightforward, as I believe mine is ? 

3. On principal, the council should be held accountable but principal doesn't pay the bills nor is it necessarily valued in English law in my experience. Do others believe it's worth pursuing?

4. Is there anything else others suggest I need to be aware of?


Many thanks in advance for any input

Simon

user1977

simonj123 said:

for the last few years, yes years (long story)

How many years? If too many then you may be out of time to start court action.

theartfullodger

So your tenancy named council as your (as landlord) tenant?  Exactly what did tenancy say about damage?

Where did you get tenant agreement from please ?

What incentive for this arrangement were you paid please? (Seen £4k... Etc )

sheramber

duolicate thread in Consumer Rights

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6552650/advice-on-claim-against-local-council-pls#latest

eddddy

I assume you participated in a council's 'Private Sector Leasing Scheme'.


What reason(s) have the council given so far for not paying?

For example, are the council claiming that it's wear and tear? Or maybe it's a result of poor workmanship or poor materials? Or maybe it's a result of lack of maintenance?

If so, I guess you'll need to provide evidence to disprove the council's reasons (Maybe something like a surveyor's report.)


And/or are you confident that the lease agreement you had with the council makes the council liable for the damage to the windows?

For example, are the council claiming that there is a clause in the lease that says they don't have to pay?

HampshireH

This seems odd. In most leasing schemes the council ir HA are expected to put the property back to the state it was in (less wear and tear I.e. if you put a new bathroom in they wouldn't be expected to do the same 5 years later)

Your inventory and photos from when you entered the contract will evidence its condition at the time.

Many councils will do a site visit with the owner on receipt of keys, accompanied by the originals docs and contract and agree either a scope of works or a settlement based on the cost it would cost them to do the works.

That settlement is like to be far less than any cost you would incur due to them having better agreed rates with tendered contractors and suppliers. Many will use a NHF schedule of rates others just quote works.

All of the above depends on your contract of course

Grumpy_chap

To reference the title of the thread "claim against Council Tenants", the OP will not have any claim against the actual Tenants as the OP leased the property to the Council.  Any claim against the actual Tenants will need to be pursued by the Council.

The norm for these Council let schemes is that the Council pay an incentive at the outset and then an agreed rent for an extended period - hence no risk of void for the property owner.  At the end of the rental period, the Council then return the property to the same state as it was at the outset after adjusting for wear and tear.

It is quite difficult to understand what the Tenants may have done to result in "£000's damage to windows".  Modern windows, that is pretty much either broken glass (obvious) or broken hinges (cheap to repair).  There is not a great deal else to actually damage.  Maybe the Council are not paying because of contesting on the basis that the claim is invalid / wear and tear.

Can the OP give any more details as to what the nature of the damage is that is being pursued?

simonj123

Hi all

And thanks for all the input and comments. Replies as follows:

GrumpyC - The damage was they snapped the lower part of a wooden Sash Window and smashed the upper part of a wooden Windowsil frame, the latter how this was managed is beyond me. The tenants in the thread title are the council, although the councils tenants who did the damage were not my tenants.

Eddy - no, the council aren't citing a clause or wear and tear. They have given pretty spurious answers so far and seem to be basically holding out to see if I actually do make a claim and what may be their perception of my having weak evidence, along with time elapsing from it originally occuring.

HampshireH - yes, odd indeed. We did a handover at the end of the PSL but I only discovered the damage after approx 1 month.

Eddy - the council are have claimed the windowsil must have been damaged, which is obviously ludicrous because they would not have taken the property on after they had inspected it before the agreement.

Let me know if there were any other questions on this and do others have any ideas about if there are other costs I need to be aware of other than initial, arrangement and hearing fee's ?

SB

Grumpy_chap

simonj123 said:

We did a handover at the end of the PSL but I only discovered the damage after approx 1 month.

I think the Council, and quite likely any Court, will find that fairly conclusive.
No damage recorded at the time of check out.
Damage advised a month later could have been caused by anyone.
I think you need to take this hit.

simonj123

Grumpy_chap said:

simonj123 said:

We did a handover at the end of the PSL but I only discovered the damage after approx 1 month.

I think the Council, and quite likely any Court, will find that fairly conclusive.
No damage recorded at the time of check out.
Damage advised a month later could have been caused by anyone.
I think you need to take this hit.

The thing is though I have time dated photographic evidence sent on a time dated email which proves the damage caused, which is why I suspect its worth pursuing. Have you gone through this process and do you know if there are other likely fees to the arrange and hearing I cited ?

BarelySentientAI

simonj123 said:

2.  I know how long is a piece of proverbial string but do most judges want a quick decision and can they see clearly when a case seems straightforward, as I believe mine is ? 

No.  Most judges want an accurate decision which applies the law correctly based on the totality of the evidence.

simonj123 said:

3. On principal, the council should be held accountable but principal doesn't pay the bills nor is it necessarily valued in English law in my experience. Do others believe it's worth pursuing?

"On principle" usually means "I don't really have evidence or the law on my side but I feel like it should be so".  The law doesn't really care what you feel like, it isn't designed to be empathetic.

simonj123 said:

1. My understanding of likely costs are initial fee, arrangement fee and hearing fee. Are there other's I need to be aware of ?

There could be plenty, it depends how far anyone wants to push it.

If your evidence relies on this "timestamped photo", then I'd be wanting a disputed documents expert for a start.