Festival Ticket Issue

PHK

born_again said:

PHK said:

The thing is, this is not a physical item (that you sell on) but payment for a service to be performed. In this case you wanted to withdraw. You don't generally have a right to resell access to a service. 

Could be viewed as a physical purchase, you pay for the ticket (like Groupon Voucher) which then gives you a right to redeem as access the festival?

No, the ticket is a representation of your contract. Tickets have the parties name or a reference identifying  them. 

A more obvious example, you couldn't  sell a Certificate of insurance to someone and expect that the insurance would transfer to them. 

Invader75

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Invader75 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

I don't see you have any right to a refund.  Their re-selling policy was clear, and it doesn't matter whether it was strictly adhered to in practice by other people - the fact remained that selling them privately may have resulted in your customer being refused entry.  Insurance was available but you were advised not to take it by other customers, not the retailer.  And not getting a doctor's note blocked that route to a refund.

I can't immediately see what Trading Standards would look into, either.  There's no automatic right to be able to re-sell tickets.  Have they complied with their terms and conditions?

I think you're left appealing for goodwill, I'm afraid.

Just seems a bit out of order that we paid for them, but don't own them enough to sell elsewhere. We had friends who wanted them but weren't able to buy them as the resale site wouldn't provide us with a direct link. 

I've been to plenty of festivals, most of them bigger, in my time since the 90's. Never had this hassle before. 

The fact they wouldn't assist us in any way even though we'd paid for them is harsh IMO. 

I suspect the first point is covered in their terms which you agreed to at the point of sale.  You can see from the current furore around Oasis tickets, that allowing an entirely free market just creates opportunities for touting.

The second and third points are irrelevant when it comes to consumers' rights, I'm afraid.  I suspect that customer behaviour has contributed to less flexibility around re-selling - frankly, the retailer wants a cut of re-sales so closing down private routes helps with that.  They did provide routes of 'escape', but you declined two of them.

We didn't decline any. We missed the cut off but that's viruses for you. Perhaps I should requested a different date to become unwell? 

They refused to, or were unable to, provide a link to our tickets via their reselling site. So that left us with no option to direct anyone to buy our tickets. Who know's if they sold them? There's no way of finding out. 

Invader75

PHK said:

Invader75 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

I don't see you have any right to a refund.  Their re-selling policy was clear, and it doesn't matter whether it was strictly adhered to in practice by other people - the fact remained that selling them privately may have resulted in your customer being refused entry.  Insurance was available but you were advised not to take it by other customers, not the retailer.  And not getting a doctor's note blocked that route to a refund.

I can't immediately see what Trading Standards would look into, either.  There's no automatic right to be able to re-sell tickets.  Have they complied with their terms and conditions?

I think you're left appealing for goodwill, I'm afraid.

Just seems a bit out of order that we paid for them, but don't own them enough to sell elsewhere. We had friends who wanted them but weren't able to buy them as the resale site wouldn't provide us with a direct link. 

I've been to plenty of festivals, most of them bigger, in my time since the 90's. Never had this hassle before. 

The fact they wouldn't assist us in any way even though we'd paid for them is harsh IMO. 

The thing is, this is not a physical item (that you sell on) but payment for a service to be performed. In this case you wanted to withdraw. You don't generally have a right to resell access to a service. 

Strange how other festivals don't operate like this. We would've happily directed people to our tickets via their reselling site but they didn't provide a link. They might've even been sold. 

Aylesbury_Duck

Invader75 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Invader75 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

I don't see you have any right to a refund.  Their re-selling policy was clear, and it doesn't matter whether it was strictly adhered to in practice by other people - the fact remained that selling them privately may have resulted in your customer being refused entry.  Insurance was available but you were advised not to take it by other customers, not the retailer.  And not getting a doctor's note blocked that route to a refund.

I can't immediately see what Trading Standards would look into, either.  There's no automatic right to be able to re-sell tickets.  Have they complied with their terms and conditions?

I think you're left appealing for goodwill, I'm afraid.

Just seems a bit out of order that we paid for them, but don't own them enough to sell elsewhere. We had friends who wanted them but weren't able to buy them as the resale site wouldn't provide us with a direct link. 

I've been to plenty of festivals, most of them bigger, in my time since the 90's. Never had this hassle before. 

The fact they wouldn't assist us in any way even though we'd paid for them is harsh IMO. 

I suspect the first point is covered in their terms which you agreed to at the point of sale.  You can see from the current furore around Oasis tickets, that allowing an entirely free market just creates opportunities for touting.

The second and third points are irrelevant when it comes to consumers' rights, I'm afraid.  I suspect that customer behaviour has contributed to less flexibility around re-selling - frankly, the retailer wants a cut of re-sales so closing down private routes helps with that.  They did provide routes of 'escape', but you declined two of them.

We didn't decline any. We missed the cut off but that's viruses for you. Perhaps I should requested a different date to become unwell? 

They refused to, or were unable to, provide a link to our tickets via their reselling site. So that left us with no option to direct anyone to buy our tickets. Who know's if they sold them? There's no way of finding out. 

You were given the opportunity to get insurance, which you declined, and you could have tried to get a doctor's note, but declined to do so.  Those were the two routes I was talking about.

eskbanker

RefluentBeans said:
I know The Cure did try and prevent it.

Prevention always being better than The Cure?

born_again

PHK said:

born_again said:

PHK said:

The thing is, this is not a physical item (that you sell on) but payment for a service to be performed. In this case you wanted to withdraw. You don't generally have a right to resell access to a service. 

Could be viewed as a physical purchase, you pay for the ticket (like Groupon Voucher) which then gives you a right to redeem as access the festival?

No, the ticket is a representation of your contract. Tickets have the parties name or a reference identifying  them. 

A more obvious example, you couldn't  sell a Certificate of insurance to someone and expect that the insurance would transfer to them. 

Many years ago Ed Sheeran was the 1st to tackle this issue. Especially against ViaGoGo. People turning up at the event with resold tickets were turned away & had to buy new tickets to attend. They were instructed to go via bank to claim the money back & many successful chargebacks were actioned again Viagogo.

How they actually work out the resold tickets I can not remember. But it was very successful & lead to the CMA investigating them.

Aylesbury_Duck

eskbanker said:

RefluentBeans said:
I know The Cure did try and prevent it.

Prevention always being better than The Cure?

Very good.  Bravo.

Invader75

born_again said:

PHK said:

born_again said:

PHK said:

The thing is, this is not a physical item (that you sell on) but payment for a service to be performed. In this case you wanted to withdraw. You don't generally have a right to resell access to a service. 

Could be viewed as a physical purchase, you pay for the ticket (like Groupon Voucher) which then gives you a right to redeem as access the festival?

No, the ticket is a representation of your contract. Tickets have the parties name or a reference identifying  them. 

A more obvious example, you couldn't  sell a Certificate of insurance to someone and expect that the insurance would transfer to them. 

Many years ago Ed Sheeran was the 1st to tackle this issue. Especially against ViaGoGo. People turning up at the event with resold tickets were turned away & had to buy new tickets to attend. They were instructed to go via bank to claim the money back & many successful chargebacks were actioned again Viagogo.

How they actually work out the resold tickets I can not remember. But it was very successful & lead to the CMA investigating them.

Thanks for that. I'll look into it. 

Invader75

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Invader75 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Invader75 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

I don't see you have any right to a refund.  Their re-selling policy was clear, and it doesn't matter whether it was strictly adhered to in practice by other people - the fact remained that selling them privately may have resulted in your customer being refused entry.  Insurance was available but you were advised not to take it by other customers, not the retailer.  And not getting a doctor's note blocked that route to a refund.

I can't immediately see what Trading Standards would look into, either.  There's no automatic right to be able to re-sell tickets.  Have they complied with their terms and conditions?

I think you're left appealing for goodwill, I'm afraid.

Just seems a bit out of order that we paid for them, but don't own them enough to sell elsewhere. We had friends who wanted them but weren't able to buy them as the resale site wouldn't provide us with a direct link. 

I've been to plenty of festivals, most of them bigger, in my time since the 90's. Never had this hassle before. 

The fact they wouldn't assist us in any way even though we'd paid for them is harsh IMO. 

I suspect the first point is covered in their terms which you agreed to at the point of sale.  You can see from the current furore around Oasis tickets, that allowing an entirely free market just creates opportunities for touting.

The second and third points are irrelevant when it comes to consumers' rights, I'm afraid.  I suspect that customer behaviour has contributed to less flexibility around re-selling - frankly, the retailer wants a cut of re-sales so closing down private routes helps with that.  They did provide routes of 'escape', but you declined two of them.

We didn't decline any. We missed the cut off but that's viruses for you. Perhaps I should requested a different date to become unwell? 

They refused to, or were unable to, provide a link to our tickets via their reselling site. So that left us with no option to direct anyone to buy our tickets. Who know's if they sold them? There's no way of finding out. 

You were given the opportunity to get insurance, which you declined, and you could have tried to get a doctor's note, but declined to do so.  Those were the two routes I was talking about.

Insurance, as others have stated, is worth SFA unless you're dead or have a terminal disease. We looked into it. 

I wasn't going to pester my GP for a simple virus and I'm not sure I'd have even got an appointment this side of Christmas. 

Aylesbury_Duck

Invader75 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Invader75 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Invader75 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

I don't see you have any right to a refund.  Their re-selling policy was clear, and it doesn't matter whether it was strictly adhered to in practice by other people - the fact remained that selling them privately may have resulted in your customer being refused entry.  Insurance was available but you were advised not to take it by other customers, not the retailer.  And not getting a doctor's note blocked that route to a refund.

I can't immediately see what Trading Standards would look into, either.  There's no automatic right to be able to re-sell tickets.  Have they complied with their terms and conditions?

I think you're left appealing for goodwill, I'm afraid.

Just seems a bit out of order that we paid for them, but don't own them enough to sell elsewhere. We had friends who wanted them but weren't able to buy them as the resale site wouldn't provide us with a direct link. 

I've been to plenty of festivals, most of them bigger, in my time since the 90's. Never had this hassle before. 

The fact they wouldn't assist us in any way even though we'd paid for them is harsh IMO. 

I suspect the first point is covered in their terms which you agreed to at the point of sale.  You can see from the current furore around Oasis tickets, that allowing an entirely free market just creates opportunities for touting.

The second and third points are irrelevant when it comes to consumers' rights, I'm afraid.  I suspect that customer behaviour has contributed to less flexibility around re-selling - frankly, the retailer wants a cut of re-sales so closing down private routes helps with that.  They did provide routes of 'escape', but you declined two of them.

We didn't decline any. We missed the cut off but that's viruses for you. Perhaps I should requested a different date to become unwell? 

They refused to, or were unable to, provide a link to our tickets via their reselling site. So that left us with no option to direct anyone to buy our tickets. Who know's if they sold them? There's no way of finding out. 

You were given the opportunity to get insurance, which you declined, and you could have tried to get a doctor's note, but declined to do so.  Those were the two routes I was talking about.

Insurance, as others have stated, is worth SFA unless you're dead or have a terminal disease. We looked into it. 

I wasn't going to pester my GP for a simple virus and I'm not sure I'd have even got an appointment this side of Christmas. 

Your choice of course, but earlier you said this (below), which suggests that a doctor's note would have triggered a successful insurance claim.  It doesn't matter that you wouldn't pester your GP - a doctor's note without the insurance is surely worthless, and you chose not to take out insurance. 

Invader75 said:

LightFlare said:

It’s an Insurance issue if any - though I am guessing you didnt have an active policy to claim against

no, we were advised not to take out insurance by other festival goers who have. Apparently it's only relevant if it's cancer, death or a doctors note. I wasn't going to waist a GP's time for a simple virus.