Kerastase won’t provide a free post returns. Are they right?

ILoveToMoveItMoveIt

Good afternoon. 

Last week on a Thursday, I  went online to Kerastase’s website, where they were having a bank holiday sale of 25% off. I placed an order for 2 items and then checked out, as one of the items was on my eye for a long time, but out of stock at Sephora and the likes or was full price and never being offered for less. 

I then had a browse after this order and placed ANOTHER order. All this was done at approx 0630. 

45mins -60mins later, I changed my mind about the second parcel and thought I should first see how I feel about the brand from the 2 products from my first and initial order and another time buy some more, so having read their cancellation policy online, at 0730approx I emailed them requesting they CANCEL the second parcel, giving them the full order information. I did this after reading their cancellation policy, which stated one could cancel their order if one informs them before their dispatch notification email, which I did. 

A few hours later, approx 11am, I received this email:

“We sincerely understand your request but we regret to inform you that we are unable to favourably respond to it. 

We would like to inform you that your order is already being prepared by our logistics team and we no longer have the possibility to cancel it.

However, we would like to reassure you that you have the possibility to refuse the order in question from the carrier who will then send it back to our warehouses.

Once the return is registered by our logistics team, we will issue a full refund of your order.

We apologise once again and thank you for your understanding.”

The next day I received 2 separate emails, ie one email for each order, to inform me they’ve shipped the orders, and that they’re on the way. I ask, via email, for the tracking details of both parcels so I can refuse delivery accordingly by knowing which tracking number refers to the corresponding orders, but I receive no response back ever. 

Then 2 days after placing my order, I receive just one email and the one email informs me my parcel will be delivered. I email again asking which order it relates to, if I could please have the tracking numbers for each parcel, but no response back. 

On the day of delivery, (Saturday) the courier arrives and lo and behold he has 2 parcels. I do my best to figure out which parcel had my items I wanted, based on weight and how many items would’ve warranted a lighter parcel and then proceed to refuse the second parcel. However, thr courier informed me if I refused one parcel I had to refuse both, as it was put down as one shipment job. I decided to accept both and then explain to Kerastase what happened and that their method didn’t work. 

I managed to speak with someone on Monday and explained and they then said they’d speak with their logistics team. By COB I received an email saying they would not arrange a free returns and to pay for the shipping to return it back to France:

“After an internal investigation, we unfortunately are unable to provide a pre-paid return label for you as the products need to return to our warehouse in France. We sincerely apologise for this huge inconvenience.

Regarding the terms of return of your products, you have a period of 14 days, from the date of receipt of your order, to proceed with the return of the product(s) to the following address:”

I then emailed reiterating that I requested a cancellation 1hr after placing my order ie well before they dispatched and to please kindly issue a free post returns label, but they responded back saying no and highlighting their email whereby they explained I could refuse the delivery. I pointed out, again, that I would’ve refused had they sent the items separately and not together or put them under different tracking references, but they have continued to insist I can return it myself to France and they’ll refund the items (but not postage). 

Is this fair and right?  

Alderbank

First of all, can you confirm that you made the purchases through Kerastase's UK website (kerastase.co.uk)? L'Oréal is a French company and Kérastase is one of their sub-brands with many local branches internationally.

Assuming you did, there just seems to have been some misunderstanding with whoever you 'managed to speak to' on Saturday. Perhaps they thought you were in France?

Their UK terms for return seem very clear and and are consistent with your statutory consumer rights:

https://www.kerastase.co.uk/customer-service/general-conditions.html

5.4 If you have received your product before you changed your mind you must return it to us unopened and unsealed without undue delay

You must send the product back to us accompanied with the returns note, to the below address:

Internet Returns

Kérastase L'Oréal (UK) ltd

Unit 3,Roach bank road,Bury, BL9 8RY

5.6 You will be responsible for the cost of returning the product to us.

5.8 We will make any refunds due to you as soon as possible and in any event within 14 days after the day on which we receive the product back from you.

I would contact them again and remind them what their UK terms and conditions in section 5 say.

A_Geordie

Hi, 

Which website did you purchase from, was it www.kerastase.co.uk? Assuming it was, if you look at their website terms and conditions it has a section about returns and refunds which says

5.4 If you have received your product before you changed your mind you must return it to us unopened and unsealed without undue delay (and in the meanwhile retain possession of the product and take reasonable care of them) and in any event not later than 14 days after the day on which you let us know that you wish to cancel. You must send the product back to us to the below address:

Internet Returns Kérastase L'Oréal (UK) ltd

Unit 3,Roach

bank road,

Bury,

BL9 8RY 

5.7 Where the full order is returned undamaged and unused, we will refund any delivery costs you have paid to receive the product from us (except for the supplementary costs arising if you choose a type of delivery other than our standard and least expensive method of delivery).

Your consumer rights for cancelling will be under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013, specifically Regulation 34 which say in a roundabout way, the same as clause 5.7 of the website terms.

Link: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/34

It may be sensible to take a video recording / photographs of the product and before you seal the packaging to prove it is not unreasonably damaged just in case they try to claim that the product was damaged when it arrived or that it was missing or never received. It's not concrete proof that what you returned couldn't have been taken out, but those photos coupled with the receipt if you take it to the post office for weighing, should help navigate those allegations. 

ILoveToMoveItMoveIt

Hello, yes I used the uk website, I’m quite sure of it. They last wrote:

We're sorry but unfortuneately, we cannot assist further for your request, as according to our terms, we are not able to provide any pre paid labels.  The terms to return your products, are available for a period of 14 days, from the date of receipt of your order.  To proceed with the return of the product(s), please send them to the following address: LUX at BSL 23 RUE E. BRANLY 35170 Bruz Cedex France We invite you to complete the return form and to attach it to your parcel. The package is then to be dropped off at the post office, we inform you that the return costs are at your charge. Also, we recommend that you keep the proof of return that will be given to you, or we will not be able to act in the event of an incident. If you require further assistance from us please feel free to call us on 08000854958. We are open Monday to Saturday 8:00 - 20:00 and Sunday 8:00 - 15:00 Kind Regards, Matteo Your Kérastase Advisor

born_again

ILoveToMoveItMoveIt said:

Hello, yes I used the uk website, I’m quite sure of it. They last wrote:

We're sorry but unfortuneately, we cannot assist further for your request, as according to our terms, we are not able to provide any pre paid labels.  The terms to return your products, are available for a period of 14 days, from the date of receipt of your order.  To proceed with the return of the product(s), please send them to the following address: LUX at BSL 23 RUE E. BRANLY 35170 Bruz Cedex France We invite you to complete the return form and to attach it to your parcel. The package is then to be dropped off at the post office, we inform you that the return costs are at your charge. Also, we recommend that you keep the proof of return that will be given to you, or we will not be able to act in the event of an incident. If you require further assistance from us please feel free to call us on 08000854958. We are open Monday to Saturday 8:00 - 20:00 and Sunday 8:00 - 15:00 Kind Regards, Matteo Your Kérastase Advisor

Go back in your browser history. That will give you the site you used.👍

Okell

Perhaps I've misunderstood, but isn't the issue here whether the OP withdrew her offer to buy the goods before a contract was entered into, and not whether she needs to pay for a return?

My understanding is that the OP says that the website allows you to "cancel" an order before you receive an email notifying of dispatch, and this is what she did.

I don't know what the T&Cs say about when a contract is formed, but it's usually on dispatch.  So if the OP cancelled before then there is no contract and the seller should never have sent out the goods.

So the seller should pay for return regardless of what their T&Cs say...

ILoveToMoveItMoveIt

Okell said:

Perhaps I've misunderstood, but isn't the issue here whether the OP withdrew her offer to buy the goods before a contract was entered into, and not whether she needs to pay for a return?

My understanding is that the OP says that the website allows you to "cancel" an order before you receive an email notifying of dispatch, and this is what she did.

I don't know what the T&Cs say about when a contract is formed, but it's usually on dispatch.  So if the OP cancelled before then there is no contract and the seller should never have sent out the goods.

So the seller should pay for return regardless of what their T&Cs say...

YES! Exactly!

yes this is my issue. What am I to do 

ILoveToMoveItMoveIt

Yes! I was on the uk site

A_Geordie

Okell said:

I don't know what the T&Cs say about when a contract is formed, but it's usually on dispatch.  So if the OP cancelled before then there is no contract and the seller should never have sent out the goods.

So the seller should pay for return regardless of what their T&Cs say...

That's a fair point, and the Regulations do allow the OP to cancel before the deliver of the goods since the OP is still within the cancellation window, but I don't believe the Regulations explicitly state that if the consumer cancels before dispatch then the seller is legally required to stop the dispatch. The seller may say that the cancellation notice was past the point of no return so that the process had to follow its course if there was not a way of successfully recalling the package. 

So yes, the seller ought not to have sent out the goods but it did, and the OP was free to reject the delivery notwithstanding the fact there were multiple goods under the same shipment and the OP only wanted one of them. Playing devil's advocate, the seller could in theory argue that knowing the contract was cancelled, the OP decided to take possession of the goods anyway, therefore OP should foot the cost of return as the OP had the opportunity to reject the goods at no cost.* On the flipside, the OP may argue that the unwanted goods fell within the meaning of unsolicited goods and therefore they are free to do as they please with it. Suppose that may depend on whether payment had already been taken at the time of delivery then the unsolicited goods argument might not apply.

* If the OP rejected both of the goods, they could possibly have claimed breach of contract for non-delivery, re-ordered the goods with a fast track delivery option such as next day and then claim that amount back, or if the specific good could be purchased elsewhere, claim the difference back. I get the feeling that it would be more hassle rejecting the goods than taking possession of the unwanted one.

Perhaps the quickest and most convenient route is for the OP to return the goods back to the UK returns address along with their order number or reference and then claim a refund that way. Anything else is likely to be more work and hassle than it needs to be. Kerastase will either refund the amount or they won't in which case the OP could start the legal process if all else fails.

Okell

ILoveToMoveItMoveIt said:

Okell said:

Perhaps I've misunderstood, but isn't the issue here whether the OP withdrew her offer to buy the goods before a contract was entered into, and not whether she needs to pay for a return?

My understanding is that the OP says that the website allows you to "cancel" an order before you receive an email notifying of dispatch, and this is what she did.

I don't know what the T&Cs say about when a contract is formed, but it's usually on dispatch.  So if the OP cancelled before then there is no contract and the seller should never have sent out the goods.

So the seller should pay for return regardless of what their T&Cs say...

YES! Exactly!

yes this is my issue. What am I to do 

Did you make it 100% clear to them that you were not trying to return something that had been sent to you legitimately, but rather that you were wanting to return something that should never have been sent to you because you had followed the instructions on the website to cancel the order before dispatch?

I can't comment on what the website actually says so I'm relying on what you say it says.

Neither am I going to comment on whether you bought it from a the UK or French or wherever site.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

A_Geordie said:

Okell said:

I don't know what the T&Cs say about when a contract is formed, but it's usually on dispatch.  So if the OP cancelled before then there is no contract and the seller should never have sent out the goods.

So the seller should pay for return regardless of what their T&Cs say...

That's a fair point, and the Regulations do allow the OP to cancel before the deliver of the goods since the OP is still within the cancellation window, but I don't believe the Regulations explicitly state that if the consumer cancels before dispatch then the seller is legally required to stop the dispatch. 

The terms state:

4.3 The contract between us will be concluded when we email you to confirm that the product(s) have been dispatched.

If a contract isn't formed until dispatch either party may withdraw their offer. 

These companies want to have their cake and eat it! They don't want to commit until dispatch so they can cancel if they don't have stock, etc but claim they can't cancel when the customer wishes to because it's in the warehouse.

Very poor behaviour indeed.

Once the goods are delivered OP is an involuntarily bailee as far as I'm aware.

@born_again might comment on the transaction being unauthorised here given the OP withdraw their offer did they not also withdraw consent for their card to be charged. 

A_Geordie said:

Perhaps the quickest and most convenient route is for the OP to return the goods back to the UK returns address along with their order number or reference and then claim a refund that way. Anything else is likely to be more work and hassle than it needs to be. Kerastase will either refund the amount or they won't in which case the OP could start the legal process if all else fails.

This is probably true