Black Horse claim - something smells wrong!

SonosMan

I used MSE template to contact several providers bak in Feb this year, Black Horse among them. They acknowledged receipt on 27 Feb. I then had a letter in the post asking for further info. I provided what i could remember, but was missing items such as the Motor Finance Agreement number. I uploaded what i had to their webpage. A few weeks passed and i received exactly same letter again, as though nothing has been received. This time i called them on the number provided. Spoke to a helpful cal handler ho took my name, address and DOB and within a couple of minutes had found all of my Agreement info. The number, start date, the term, the monthly amount. I said to the call handler that i didn't;t understand why they had asked me twice for info they already had; no real answer to this. They asked me upload all this to their webpage again, which i did.

Fast forward a few more weeks and I received the exact same letter in the post asking, once again, for all of this same info. Frustrated, i called them again. Again they could provide the info to me about my Agreement, though this time there was some hesitation in providing the info i seemed to note. Here's the real concern though, the call handler then asked me if i'd like then to raise a 'Commission Complaints Case' for them to investigate. I said, i thought that providing the above info would automatically trigger such an investigation. Apparently not (unless this call handler is mistaken). She then created the 'Case' and provided me with a Case number.

I find all of this very concerning. Firstly, they clearly have the info they need to raise the case without asking me to provide it. Perhaps their experience shows that some folk give up if they can't locate their data themselves (even though Black Horse have it)? Secondly, they have introduced a secondary step, without any transparency of this, that requires to you log an official complaint, over and above what you're already done.

At best their process for dealing with these claims/requests (whatever they call them) is a mess; at worst it is deliberately trying to 'game' the system and mitigate their potential payouts.

So, just in case anyone here has sent off MSE's template, had the acknowledgement and nothing else, then i suspect nothing will be happening and they will not be investigating your case. You need to have them acknowledge your claim and have them raise a 'Case' complete with 'Case number'.

Oh yes, and on the second call (yesterday) I was asked "in your own words, tell me why you believe you may have been affected/impacted by the commission issue?". I found this very strange too. If you've had an Agreement with them during the time period of investigation, then it is up to them to demonstrate they have or haven't been robbing you.....!

Be interested if the above resonates with anyone else.

born_again

SonosMan said:

I used MSE template to contact several providers bak in Feb this year, Black Horse among them. They acknowledged receipt on 27 Feb. I then had a letter in the post asking for further info. I provided what i could remember, but was missing items such as the Motor Finance Agreement number. I uploaded what i had to their webpage. A few weeks passed and i received exactly same letter again, as though nothing has been received. This time i called them on the number provided. Spoke to a helpful cal handler ho took my name, address and DOB and within a couple of minutes had found all of my Agreement info. The number, start date, the term, the monthly amount. I said to the call handler that i didn't;t understand why they had asked me twice for info they already had; no real answer to this. They asked me upload all this to their webpage again, which i did.

Fast forward a few more weeks and I received the exact same letter in the post asking, once again, for all of this same info. Frustrated, i called them again. Again they could provide the info to me about my Agreement, though this time there was some hesitation in providing the info i seemed to note. Here's the real concern though, the call handler then asked me if i'd like then to raise a 'Commission Complaints Case' for them to investigate. I said, i thought that providing the above info would automatically trigger such an investigation. Apparently not (unless this call handler is mistaken). She then created the 'Case' and provided me with a Case number.

I find all of this very concerning. Firstly, they clearly have the info they need to raise the case without asking me to provide it. Perhaps their experience shows that some folk give up if they can't locate their data themselves (even though Black Horse have it)? Secondly, they have introduced a secondary step, without any transparency of this, that requires to you log an official complaint, over and above what you're already done.

At best their process for dealing with these claims/requests (whatever they call them) is a mess; at worst it is deliberately trying to 'game' the system and mitigate their potential payouts.

So, just in case anyone here has sent off MSE's template, had the acknowledgement and nothing else, then i suspect nothing will be happening and they will not be investigating your case. You need to have them acknowledge your claim and have them raise a 'Case' complete with 'Case number'.

Oh yes, and on the second call (yesterday) I was asked "in your own words, tell me why you believe you may have been affected/impacted by the commission issue?". I found this very strange too. If you've had an Agreement with them during the time period of investigation, then it is up to them to demonstrate they have or haven't been robbing you.....!

Be interested if the above resonates with anyone else.

In reality they do not have to do.
As FCA are not going to be making a decision on the matter till next year.

Perfectly normal question. To which you should have had a answer. Although I doubt that anyone can give a valid answer, as they were never effected 🤷‍♀️

SonosMan

I understand the FCA timeline, thanks. I did give them an answer. My point is they appear to be running a 2 step process but have not been transparent about it. Should the FCA decision be favourable to agreement holders, you won’t be in a queue waiting for BH to react unless BH have given you an official‘Commission Complaint Case Number’. I only discovered this yesterday after 2 calls, 3 letters and 2 online data submissions. 

dunstonh

 I said to the call handler that i didn't;t understand why they had asked me twice for info they already had; no real answer to this. 

Fast forward a few more weeks and I received the exact same letter in the post asking, once again, for all of this same info. Frustrated, i called them again.

A lot of the big firms will contract out things like this to third parties and being asked for things again is not unccomon.

There can also be a lag on the data being received, then input, then passed to another to look at.  In the meantime, if the computer doesn't see any change, it will send out another letter.     The computerisation relies on speed of administration but the reality is that no-one is doing anything fast with DCA as the whole thing is on hold until late 2025 at the earliest (possibly 2026 or 27 depending on legal cases).

Here's the real concern though, the call handler then asked me if i'd like then to raise a 'Commission Complaints Case' for them to investigate. I said, i thought that providing the above info would automatically trigger such an investigation. Apparently not (unless this call handler is mistaken). She then created the 'Case' and provided me with a Case number.

If you used the MSE template then it gives the impression that its both commissions and DCA.   They can easily reject the commission side of the complaint (which are seeing).   But it means the complaint needs to be split up from the DCA complaint as DCA complaints are suspended but commission complaints are not.

I find all of this very concerning. Firstly, they clearly have the info they need to raise the case without asking me to provide it. 

I don't think you can assume that.  Many people don't realise that the whole issue is about DCA.    And when you use a template that complaints about commission and DCA, they need to check if that is what you really wanted.

 Secondly, they have introduced a secondary step, without any transparency of this, that requires to you log an official complaint, over and above what you're already done.

How is it not transparent if they have asked you?
The initial template is not a complaint.  It is an enquiry.   With complaints suspended on DCA, they need to either automatically assume you are raising a commission complaint or ask you if that is what you wanted to do.  Most people do not want to raise a commission complaint but are confused on the issue.

At best their process for dealing with these claims/requests (whatever they call them) is a mess; at worst it is deliberately trying to 'game' the system and mitigate their potential payouts.

How would it mitigate anything?
The bottom line is that if you have DCA, it will go into the pile for the next year or two before they need to look at it again.     At that point, they will check whether it was neutral DCA, positive DCA or negative DCA and will respond as per the instructions from the FCA (only negative DCA is likely to result in redress, assuming the court cases and appeals do not agree  with the lenders).   If DCA didn't apply, then can reject it earlier than that.

Oh yes, and on the second call (yesterday) I was asked "in your own words, tell me why you believe you may have been affected/impacted by the commission issue?". I found this very strange too. If you've had an Agreement with them during the time period of investigation, then it is up to them to demonstrate they have or haven't been robbing you.....!

That doesn't apply to DCA.  That applies to the commission part of your complaint.

Be interested if the above resonates with anyone else.

A few of us on here have criticised the MSE template due to its unnecessary requests and confusing information.   it has led to some lenders seeing it as two complaints. One about commission and one about DCA.   Even though its DCA that is the issue and not commission.       

Remember that by using that template you have complained about both.   One is an issue that the FCA are dealing with but the other is you alleging a wrongdoing about commission.   You put your name to that by using that template.    So, now the lender is trying to find out what exactly you think is wrong.    

It sounds like you didn't understand the template you used to make your complaint involved two things and not just the issue in hand.

I wouldn't be too worried about it though.  You will almost certainly get a rejection on the commission commission complaint (as commission is allowed) and the DCA side of the complaint will be looked at by the end of 2025 (or later as mentioned due to court cases) and will follow the FCA's instructions to dealers.

RBLUE7

SonosMan said:

I used MSE template to contact several providers bak in Feb this year, Black Horse among them. They acknowledged receipt on 27 Feb. I then had a letter in the post asking for further info. I provided what i could remember, but was missing items such as the Motor Finance Agreement number. I uploaded what i had to their webpage. A few weeks passed and i received exactly same letter again, as though nothing has been received. This time i called them on the number provided. Spoke to a helpful cal handler ho took my name, address and DOB and within a couple of minutes had found all of my Agreement info. The number, start date, the term, the monthly amount. I said to the call handler that i didn't;t understand why they had asked me twice for info they already had; no real answer to this. They asked me upload all this to their webpage again, which i did.

Fast forward a few more weeks and I received the exact same letter in the post asking, once again, for all of this same info. Frustrated, i called them again. Again they could provide the info to me about my Agreement, though this time there was some hesitation in providing the info i seemed to note. Here's the real concern though, the call handler then asked me if i'd like then to raise a 'Commission Complaints Case' for them to investigate. I said, i thought that providing the above info would automatically trigger such an investigation. Apparently not (unless this call handler is mistaken). She then created the 'Case' and provided me with a Case number.

I find all of this very concerning. Firstly, they clearly have the info they need to raise the case without asking me to provide it. Perhaps their experience shows that some folk give up if they can't locate their data themselves (even though Black Horse have it)? Secondly, they have introduced a secondary step, without any transparency of this, that requires to you log an official complaint, over and above what you're already done.

At best their process for dealing with these claims/requests (whatever they call them) is a mess; at worst it is deliberately trying to 'game' the system and mitigate their potential payouts.

So, just in case anyone here has sent off MSE's template, had the acknowledgement and nothing else, then i suspect nothing will be happening and they will not be investigating your case. You need to have them acknowledge your claim and have them raise a 'Case' complete with 'Case number'.

Oh yes, and on the second call (yesterday) I was asked "in your own words, tell me why you believe you may have been affected/impacted by the commission issue?". I found this very strange too. If you've had an Agreement with them during the time period of investigation, then it is up to them to demonstrate they have or haven't been robbing you.....!

Be interested if the above resonates with anyone else.

SonosMan said:

I used MSE template to contact several providers bak in Feb this year, Black Horse among them. They acknowledged receipt on 27 Feb. I then had a letter in the post asking for further info. I provided what i could remember, but was missing items such as the Motor Finance Agreement number. I uploaded what i had to their webpage. A few weeks passed and i received exactly same letter again, as though nothing has been received. This time i called them on the number provided. Spoke to a helpful cal handler ho took my name, address and DOB and within a couple of minutes had found all of my Agreement info. The number, start date, the term, the monthly amount. I said to the call handler that i didn't;t understand why they had asked me twice for info they already had; no real answer to this. They asked me upload all this to their webpage again, which i did.

Fast forward a few more weeks and I received the exact same letter in the post asking, once again, for all of this same info. Frustrated, i called them again. Again they could provide the info to me about my Agreement, though this time there was some hesitation in providing the info i seemed to note. Here's the real concern though, the call handler then asked me if i'd like then to raise a 'Commission Complaints Case' for them to investigate. I said, i thought that providing the above info would automatically trigger such an investigation. Apparently not (unless this call handler is mistaken). She then created the 'Case' and provided me with a Case number.

I find all of this very concerning. Firstly, they clearly have the info they need to raise the case without asking me to provide it. Perhaps their experience shows that some folk give up if they can't locate their data themselves (even though Black Horse have it)? Secondly, they have introduced a secondary step, without any transparency of this, that requires to you log an official complaint, over and above what you're already done.

At best their process for dealing with these claims/requests (whatever they call them) is a mess; at worst it is deliberately trying to 'game' the system and mitigate their potential payouts.

So, just in case anyone here has sent off MSE's template, had the acknowledgement and nothing else, then i suspect nothing will be happening and they will not be investigating your case. You need to have them acknowledge your claim and have them raise a 'Case' complete with 'Case number'.

Oh yes, and on the second call (yesterday) I was asked "in your own words, tell me why you believe you may have been affected/impacted by the commission issue?". I found this very strange too. If you've had an Agreement with them during the time period of investigation, then it is up to them to demonstrate they have or haven't been robbing you.....!

Be interested if the above resonates with anyone else.

What email address have you used to send the MSE template please?