Dispute with landlord regarding water damage

dwty67

We had rented a 4bhk property with 1 ensuite and 1 family bath (must be more than a 20 year old property and all the fixtures must be of the same age). During our tenancy, there was a seepage that we noticed on the kitchen ceiling which was due to cracks in the shower tray of the family bath. In couple of days, we could see three separate cracks on the shower tray and we informed the landlord about this. 

At that point, the landlord was cooperative and agreed to get it repaired and even we had stopped using the shower as the en suite was sufficient for us. Now, near to the end of our tenancy, the landlord is trying to put this on us and here is the report from the plumber that they have shared with me: 

On inspection it was obvious to me that the water damage to the kitchen ceiling and walls was caused by using a shower that was clearly cracked in three places. 

This would have been evident the very first time it leaked. 

Through constant use this has caused extreme damage to the ceiling and allso all the fire proof plasterboard that is covering the reinforced steel joist underneath. The water has basically leaked across the ceiling and tracked along the board that covers the Rsj and then saturated the wall. Causing black mould that you can see somebody had tried to wipe away . . As a result the ceiling underneath the bathroom will need completely replacing along with the boards that cover the Rsj . Also the plaster will need removing and redoing around the hob. 

1) remove all water damaged boards 

2) remove cooker hood and splash back

3 ) reboard ceiling with foil back boards and replace boards on the steel with pink fire check boards.

4) skim all new boarded area and the wall where the extractor was removed. 

5) redecorate the ceiling and wall  using white kitchen paint. 

6) refit the extractor and the splash

labour and materials 

Total cost £2,230

The landlord has agreed to bear half the cost but that still is quite unreasonable for me since I don't think we are at fault here. At the same time, I want to close this quickly so I have proposed to my landlord that I will propose an amicable solution and if that's not agreeable then we will approach TDS. The landlord doesn't want to approach TDS and wants to settle this by negotiation.

My question is how do I work out the cost that we should be paying considering age of asset and what other factors should I be considering?

housebuyer143

Did you know it was leaking? How long were you there before you notice it leaking? How did the shower tray crack? Were they there when you moved in? How much is your deposit?

If it was a slow leak it could have taken you a long time to notice because the water has to soak the floor and then drip through there and soak the ceiling. Mine has done just that and it's probably been leaking a while before it was noticeable on the ceiling. 

tacpot12

It sounds like the landlord is asserting that you used the shower even though there were visible cracks in it. Is this the case? Is it possible that a heavy child used the shower and didn't understand that the shower tray was cracked and likely to be leaking, and didn't tell anyone? 

If the shower was visibly cracked and used, then you should potentially be paying the whole bill.

If the shower wasn't visibly cracked but was leaking through hairline/invisible cracks, it is not unreasonable for the water to have taken time to work its way through the ceiling to a point where it became visible. In that time, it is likely that fire boards covering the RSJ would have absorbed some of the water slowing down its discovery. I think the plumber is wrong to assert that the leak would have been evident the first time it leaked. I think the TDS will also have experience that this is the case, and if you assert that the leak wasn't visible until the third or fourt time the shower was used, they might accept this. 

However, your problem is in justifying how invisible cracks became visible if the shower wasn't being used. 

HobgoblinBT

If this were an owner occupied house, the consequential damage from the leak would be covered by household insurance.  

Does your tenants liability insurance cover you for any of this damage and does the landlord’s insurance cover him?

dwty67

The cracks weren't visible. We noticed the seepage on the ceiling first and then carefully examined the shower tray to identify the cracks. I think the total timeframe from the time we saw seepage and till cracks got visible would be only 2-3 days. So even if we continued to use the shower, it wouldn't be more than for 2 days.  

dwty67

tacpot12 said:

It sounds like the landlord is asserting that you used the shower even though there were visible cracks in it. Is this the case? Is it possible that a heavy child used the shower and didn't understand that the shower tray was cracked and likely to be leaking, and didn't tell anyone? 

If the shower was visibly cracked and used, then you should potentially be paying the whole bill.

If the shower wasn't visibly cracked but was leaking through hairline/invisible cracks, it is not unreasonable for the water to have taken time to work its way through the ceiling to a point where it became visible. In that time, it is likely that fire boards covering the RSJ would have absorbed some of the water slowing down its discovery. I think the plumber is wrong to assert that the leak would have been evident the first time it leaked. I think the TDS will also have experience that this is the case, and if you assert that the leak wasn't visible until the third or fourt time the shower was used, they might accept this. 

However, your problem is in justifying how invisible cracks became visible if the shower wasn't being used. 

Yes, my sense is that the TDS will accept my justification. However, I don't want to delay this process and there are some more points in the checkout report and my landlord is sort of threatening me that if I approach TDS then they would raise the claim on all the points mentioned in the checkout report. Honestly, those points aren't major at all and don't hold any water (no pun intended) but that would mean more email exchanges and more frustration. 

I really want this to get over as quickly as possible - Can someone advice me how do I amicably close this? How do I arrive at an amount which might seem fair?

dwty67

HobgoblinBT said:

If this were an owner occupied house, the consequential damage from the leak would be covered by household insurance.  

Does your tenants liability insurance cover you for any of this damage and does the landlord’s insurance cover him?

Sadly, I don't have tenants liability insurance cover - learning for the future. I have asked my landlord whether this could be covered by household insurance. Thank you for pointing that out 

housebuyer143

I would try your luck at TDS. I think the onus is on him to prove you knew it was damaged and used it. I don't think it's unreasonable to take 3/4 days to notice if if it's only seeping through. Like I said, exact same thing happened in my house and I didn't ignore the problem, it's not visible until it's come through the ceiling and by then it's already absorbed into the flooring. 

Explain it to TDS like you have here and photograph the cracks. Worst case TDS rule in his favour, you lose the deposit and he would then have to pursue you at court for the extra. 

dwty67

housebuyer143 said:

I would try your luck at TDS. I think the onus is on him to prove you knew it was damaged and used it. I don't think it's unreasonable to take 3/4 days to notice if if it's only seeping through. Like I said, exact same thing happened in my house and I didn't ignore the problem, it's not visible until it's come through the ceiling and by then it's already absorbed into the flooring. 

Explain it to TDS like you have here and photograph the cracks. Worst case TDS rule in his favour, you lose the deposit and he would then have to pursue you at court for the extra. 

Can the landlord raise additional claims if I approach TDS? 

housebuyer143

dwty67 said:

housebuyer143 said:

I would try your luck at TDS. I think the onus is on him to prove you knew it was damaged and used it. I don't think it's unreasonable to take 3/4 days to notice if if it's only seeping through. Like I said, exact same thing happened in my house and I didn't ignore the problem, it's not visible until it's come through the ceiling and by then it's already absorbed into the flooring. 

Explain it to TDS like you have here and photograph the cracks. Worst case TDS rule in his favour, you lose the deposit and he would then have to pursue you at court for the extra. 

Can the landlord raise additional claims if I approach TDS? 

Yes, the landlord can claim anything at TDS, but whether it has merit or not is another story. They don't allow betterment either, so even if they agreed with landlord it's unlikely you would be paying that entire bill as that's new for old.

They can't award more than the deposit and tend to be sympathetic to tenants over the landlord.

newsgroupmonkey_

housebuyer143 said:

dwty67 said:

housebuyer143 said:

I would try your luck at TDS. I think the onus is on him to prove you knew it was damaged and used it. I don't think it's unreasonable to take 3/4 days to notice if if it's only seeping through. Like I said, exact same thing happened in my house and I didn't ignore the problem, it's not visible until it's come through the ceiling and by then it's already absorbed into the flooring. 

Explain it to TDS like you have here and photograph the cracks. Worst case TDS rule in his favour, you lose the deposit and he would then have to pursue you at court for the extra. 

Can the landlord raise additional claims if I approach TDS? 

Yes, the landlord can claim anything at TDS, but whether it has merit or not is another story. They don't allow betterment either, so even if they agreed with landlord it's unlikely you would be paying that entire bill as that's new for old.

They can't award more than the deposit and tend to be sympathetic to tenants over the landlord.

I'm with this.
The Landlord is threatening you around TDS because they know that TDS won't side with them and they're going to add stuff to try and make the difference up.

If you can provide TDS with evidence to say that he's blackmailing you, it'll look bad on the landlord and it's unlikely you'll owe anything.