Yet another DCBL county claim (Euro car parks) - Chelmsford

dlb134

Good evening everyone,

Creating this thread so I can ensure the drivers defence is tip top. 

The driver parked in a eurocar park during COVID where the signage appeared to allow for free parking post 18:00 (the driver is in process of obtaining a copy of the sign).

To add insult to injury and not that it really matters, but this was post a long NHS shift in A&E, again during COVID, when the driver decided they needed to try and feel some sort of normality and take part in a socially distanced meal with work colleagues.

The driver has since ignored any communications with DCBL, Zenith etc

The driver has submitted an AOS and is currently forming their defence. 


Any and all advice is appreciated. Regards

KeithP

Hello and welcome.

With a Claim Issue Date of 28th August, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 30th September 2024 to file a Defence.

That's four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

dlb134

KeithP said:

Hello and welcome.

With a Claim Issue Date of 28th August, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 30th September 2024 to file a Defence.

That's four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Thanks Keith

Coupon-mad

Was the restaurant in the retail park? I doubt that it offered free parking after 6pm. More likely 10 minutes max. I don't think that angle is going to work but "unlit/unclear signs" will.

For the future:
Retail parks are not the place to park after the shops close. They almost all have ANPR. It simply is not somewhere to use.

In the evening or on Sundays always park on-street, because ANPR isn't allowed for parking scrutiny (except on red routes).

Every town/city has roads where restrictions end in the evening and parking is free. Even in London (& Chelmsford).  In the evening - and on Sundays - I never use a car park in any city.

(Only saying this to stop it happening again).

dlb134

Coupon-mad said:

Was the restaurant in the retail park? I doubt that it offered free parking after 6pm. More likely 10 minutes max. I don't think that angle is going to work but "unlit/unclear signs" will.

For the future:
Retail parks are not the place to park after the shops close. They almost all have ANPR. It simply is not somewhere to use.

In the evening or on Sundays always park on-street, because ANPR isn't allowed for parking scrutiny (except on red routes).

Every town/city has roads where restrictions end in the evening and parking is free. Even in London (& Chelmsford).  In the evening - and on Sundays - I never use a car park in any city.

(Only saying this to stop it happening again).

The parking itself is separate to the restaurant but I am due to go to Chelmsford tomorrow where I shall double check the signage. I should had taken a photo of the sign at the time, but obviously, one doesnt expect for this to happen 4 years down the line. 

Good advice and I appreciate that. I shall avoid city carparks like the plague in future. 

In regards to the defence of poorly lit signage/unclear - is there a template for this anywhere that I can use/read?

Coupon-mad

You could search the forum for 

dark unlit car park signs defence

...or a mix of some similar words.

dlb134

Coupon-mad said:

You could search the forum for 

dark unlit car park signs defence

...or a mix of some similar words.

\lovely, this has been super helpful.

I've noticed you mentioned a couple times to request a SAR to see the parking firms "hand to play".

What is this and is it worth me doing in this case?

Regards

Coupon-mad

No we've changed the advice. No SAR.

dlb134

Very rough first draft. 

Just to save posting the entire copy and paste from the guides given, ill just post what I've written up so far. Any feedback is much appreciated. 

Is it worth me mentioning that this was during COVID and therefore, during a period when many places were either unmanned, unkempt (from memory, the machine didnt actually work, not that that can be proved) free etc etc

The defendant was also working in the community as well as the hospitals. They were pretty much allowed to park anywhere which was made official perhaps a month or two later (other than with private car parks). 






3. The defendants case is that the parking operator has breached the British Parking Association (BPA) code of
practice. The defendant states there is a lack of or no proprietary interest and non-compliant legal contract
with the landowner contrary to the requirement of section 7 of the code of practice. The defendant states there
is no clear information on the operator’s signage, and it does not comply with section 21.1, 22.1 or 27.4 of
the code of practice. The defendant states the charge amount is not clear on the signage with the sum payable
for unauthorised parking not adequately brought to the attention of motorists or compliant with any
applicable government regulations. The defendant states the signage does not comply with section 19 of the
code of practice and the protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012 as the charge sum is not highlighted and
shown in smaller type.

On the date in question the defendant visited the Court yard bar on Baddow rd. This was the defendants first time visiting the court yard. It was evening and dark, and no signs were witnessed to demonstrate that this was not in fact free to park after retail hours.

A)The signage nearest to the car was illuminated by a sodium lamp, casting a yellow/orange light. The sign has a mid yellow background and blue/red/yellow font of varying sizes. The font is too small to read at a distance of more than about 50cm in clear daylight. See photo XX of pg XX, which was taken in the dark and from the roadside, at a distance of approximately 1.5m which would be representative of a driver’s distance from the sign. See also photo xx of xx, which shows the sign when viewed from inside a vehicle in the same light conditions. It is impossible to read most of the sign

B)I have considered the Code of Practice ("CoP") of the British Parking Association ("BPA"). This does not provide detailed prescription for signage but, in the section dealing with it, starts by clearly stating that operators must use signs to make it easy for the motorist to find out what the terms and conditions are. At 18.3 it also states that operators should try to use plain and intelligible language in all their signs and information.

C) I do not consider the claimant’s signage to signs to make it easy for the motorist to find out what the terms and conditions are, nor do they use plain and intelligible language.

Coupon-mad

I'd remove A B and C which goes into too much detail about signs you didn't see!

Make it clear what your job is and whether you were seeing a patient?

And add this:

This was during COVID and therefore, during a period when many places were either unmanned or unkempt (from memory, the machine didn't actually work). The defendant was working in the community as well as at hospitals.  Around this time, NHS staff were allowed to park almost anywhere and the British Parking Association followed the official Government line on this, with instructions to its members regarding relaxation of rules and cancellation of PCNs for NHS workers on call and for people getting COVID vaccines. The BPA clear line to their members in 2020/21 was not to penalise NHS workers.



See here for into but don't use this link

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6231025/private-pcns-issued-to-people-getting-covid19-vaccinations-policy-responses-from-the-trade-bodies/p1

dlb134

Coupon-mad said:

I'd remove A B and C which goes into too much detail about signs you didn't see!

Make it clear what your job is and whether you were seeing a patient?

And add this:

This was during COVID and therefore, during a period when many places were either unmanned or unkempt (from memory, the machine didn't actually work). The defendant was working in the community as well as at hospitals.  Around this time, NHS staff were allowed to park almost anywhere and the British Parking Association followed the official Government line on this, with instructions to its members regarding relaxation of rules and cancellation of PCNs for NHS workers on call and for people getting COVID vaccines. The BPA clear line to their members in 2020/21 was not to penalise NHS workers.



See here for into but don't use this link

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6231025/private-pcns-issued-to-people-getting-covid19-vaccinations-policy-responses-from-the-trade-bodies/p1

A,B and C are written after reviewing the signage in daylight. 

I guess this would be more suited to the witness statement and needs to be clearly labelled as so. Removed for now!

In regards to seeing a patient, it would be very difficult for me to track back. It was common at that time for patient to be discharged early to minimise COVID contact thus go home without medications and/or discharge letter. It would therefore be common for myself to then deliver these medications / letters post shift. This was done fairly informally as there was no official procedure in place at the time.

The link attached appears to be for vaccination centres only?