Water Meter system boiler vs combi

Albermarle

MysteryMe said:

Apologies if I have the wrong poster, I think you are the poster who had just moved in to a larger home that had a fully working boiler but was naturally concerned about energy costs over winter?

I think my original advice still stands TBH. See how your bills are for one winter, before spending thousands to potentially only saving hundreds.  You are then dealing with what is known rather than what may or may not be.

Concentrate on insulation, thermostat controls etc.  

The poster has two threads going, where they have asked numerous questions, so not surprising if you are not sure who/what you are replying to !

Steveotwo

MysteryMe said:

Apologies if I have the wrong poster, I think you are the poster who had just moved in to a larger home that had a fully working boiler but was naturally concerned about energy costs over winter?

I think my original advice still stands TBH. See how your bills are for one winter, before spending thousands to potentially only saving hundreds.  You are then dealing with what is known rather than what may or may not be.

Concentrate on insulation, thermostat controls etc.  

Thank you I think this is the right decision, I just have anxiety after bills going up for the move and potentially this one to. Is it easy enough to change controls? 

FreeBear

Steveotwo said: I just have anxiety after bills going up for the move and potentially this one to. Is it easy enough to change controls? 

Depending on what is currently installed, a new control is usually a straightforward change. Programmable timers usually mount on a standard backplate, and takes minutes to swap. Some programmable thermostats come with a wireless thermostat with a receiver hard wired in (this may be the better option for you). Others need new cables installed.

Steveotwo

it looks like the one linked below, always light up to which I find must be very wasteful 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/drayton-lp522-2-channel-digital-programmer/20673?tc=CA8&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwufq2BhAmEiwAnZqw8mZ-rsjyKKAxFjgxlBe8X14GMxDxxMO6EMJjuKZPfxBr69nQWfsMhhoCfQoQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Kiran

ComicGeek said:

Steveotwo said:

Kiran said:

Steveotwo said:

Kiran said:

Other things that might be worth considering. A system boiler gives you the additional options of being able to take advantage of solar thermal amd solar PV to heat water, it allows you to benefit from agile pricing if you use cheap rate electricity to heat your tank. I'd go as far as to say the cylinder and controls are on par with respect to the amount they can save you over just changing a functional boiler for a new one

How would I go about adding these solar options? I always thought these where very expensive?

So, couple of ways to benefit from solar, one is to change your cylinder for a cylinder with solar thermal coils. I was having a new cylinder added anyway as I have multiple people getting ready at the same time in the morning etc. so the tank means you can pull hot water from multiple outlets. Not an option with a combi unfortunately. The cost of the multi coil cylinder wasn't much different from the standard high efficiency cylinder. The panels work out about £500ish each (trade). From about May to September the solar thermal takes care of almost all the hot water need.

The other way to benefit is to have solar PV and use the electricity generated to power the immersion. During the winter I use this approach, the solar thermal still adds a bit on the odd sunny days. You can also use cheap rate electricity if you are on an agile tariff and occasionally get paid to heat your tank.

Varying levels of investment from free if you alter your electricity tariff, to reasonable investment for solar thermal to expensive if you go for a full PV array which benefits you in multiple other ways too

Thanks can you point me to any videos of these set ups? How much was it to get it all wired in after paying £500 for the panels?

Forget about solar thermal - it's expensive to install, difficult to maintain and very limited savings. Hot water usage is pretty small in most cases so the savings are very small - once the cylinder is heated up in the summer you can't use the excess generation anywhere else. Most houses could save an average of £60 per year with solar thermal - typical installation costs of around £4-5k, so never going to pay back. The high pressure systems tend to overheat in summer and autovent - the cost of maintenance and refilling is more expensive than any running cost saving. 

Solar photovoltaics to produce electricity are a much better option, as you can choose where to use the electricity - you can heat the cylinder via immersion, run the washing machine, charge the car etc. But again is unlikely to provide a reasonable payback unless you get a really good deal or are a high summer electricity user (ie running air con, swimming pool etc).

Spend money on heating controls. Don't spend any money replacing an existing working boiler with another. Definitely don't replace an existing working system boiler and cylinder with a combi.

Don't agree with this 100%, the costs aren't anywhere near that high if you are installing a new system anyway which was my point. I do however agree that the solar PV is your best option for diversification of the use of generated energy.

Kiran

Steveotwo said:

it looks like the one linked below, always light up to which I find must be very wasteful 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/drayton-lp522-2-channel-digital-programmer/20673?tc=CA8&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwufq2BhAmEiwAnZqw8mZ-rsjyKKAxFjgxlBe8X14GMxDxxMO6EMJjuKZPfxBr69nQWfsMhhoCfQoQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

That is a basic programmer, but if you have TRV's fitted it can be used to maximise the efficiency of your current system. There's are more fancy systems out there but again it's investment vs payback. Assume you can turn your flow temp and hot water temp down on your existing boiler? Try adjusting these down for instant free savings

Albermarle

Steveotwo said:

it looks like the one linked below, always light up to which I find must be very wasteful 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/drayton-lp522-2-channel-digital-programmer/20673?tc=CA8&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwufq2BhAmEiwAnZqw8mZ-rsjyKKAxFjgxlBe8X14GMxDxxMO6EMJjuKZPfxBr69nQWfsMhhoCfQoQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Yes must cost about 10 p a year !

Steveotwo

Albermarle said:

Steveotwo said:

it looks like the one linked below, always light up to which I find must be very wasteful 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/drayton-lp522-2-channel-digital-programmer/20673?tc=CA8&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwufq2BhAmEiwAnZqw8mZ-rsjyKKAxFjgxlBe8X14GMxDxxMO6EMJjuKZPfxBr69nQWfsMhhoCfQoQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Yes must cost about 10 p a year !

Yeah well I don't know that's why I'm asking for the advice from strangers on the internet, its also bright orange which is equally annoying 

Kiran

Steveotwo said:

Albermarle said:

Steveotwo said:

it looks like the one linked below, always light up to which I find must be very wasteful 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/drayton-lp522-2-channel-digital-programmer/20673?tc=CA8&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwufq2BhAmEiwAnZqw8mZ-rsjyKKAxFjgxlBe8X14GMxDxxMO6EMJjuKZPfxBr69nQWfsMhhoCfQoQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Yes must cost about 10 p a year !

Yeah well I don't know that's why I'm asking for the advice from strangers on the internet, its also bright orange which is equally annoying 

The spec on Screwfix says 5.6W which is about 178hours to use 1 unit. Just for info, not that it can fix that annoying orange glow!

ThisIsWeird

5.6W as a standby consumption would be appalling. I suspect it ain't that high - possibly that's an operating consumption, when it's actually triggering the relay - ie momentary - or when the display is lit? These are also available in battery-powered versions, and a set will typically last 1-2 years, so no way is that drawing a constant 5.6W!

But, it's still not enough reason to get rid of it, as any alternative will cost well in excess of £50 to buy - and that's likely to be a couple of decades of leccy cost.

This is a mini-version of the 'should I replace the boiler?' conundrum. Steve, the answer in pretty much every respect is 'no', at least not unless you can obtain a measurable tangible improvement, or if the device has gone kaput.

So, boiler - leave it alone until it becomes beyond eco repair. Leave this controller alone, unless you can find an alternative that will save the purchase cost.

Could we see your room stat, please? There may be some mileage in replacing that with a ProgStat, even a Smart type - are you happy using phone Apps? This will, very likely, save you a decent sum. For instance, when we are watching TV late in t'eve', blanket over t'legs, and the drama has a half-hour to run before bedtime, since it's so easy to do I will often pick up t'phone, often to t'annoyance of t'other, and turn off t'heating. If I don't bother, then I know it's turning down at a programmed time in any case.

Prog Stats are great. Smart ones are even better.