Quantum rads v. panel heaters for bedroom and kitchen

lilac_dawn

Gerry1 said:

If you don't use the bedroom for working at home and you can leave the door open so it gets enough heat in the day to avoid damp and mould, then an oil filled radiator with good thermostatic control on an E7 circuit might fit the bill.

Pretty much fit and forget !

However, beware that some areas can have split E7 times.

Is that a thing on wheels though? Does it make much noise clicking on and off? We do have split times here but that's OK. 

matelodave

Panel heaters or oil filled rads (even those filled with magic dust) all use energy when they are in use and therefore usually at peak rates and will take some time to heat the room up to temperature. They really need to be on a timer and big enough (more kw) to heat the room fast enough.

Same with plinth/fan heaters although they do give the heat out by blowing air over the element and so feel a lot warmer quicker but will still use the same amount of energy to heat the room to the same temperature in the same amount of time.

Storage heaters on the other hand will still use the same amount of energy to heat the room to the same temperature but will use off peak electricity and so tend to be a lot cheaper to run and generally give out a more even heat over a longer period

Quantums are high heat retention heaters which although store the heat during off peak times need a fan to deliver the heat and are therefore a bit more controllable than a bog standard storage heater. They also seem to be specified a bit undersized based on the fact that they can boost the output with a fan and a backup heater (which uses peak rate electricity)

TBH for a quick warm up in a bedroom then a fan heater will do the job (you can stand in front of it) and bit similar to a plinth heater in a kitchen. For more prolonged even heat then storage or quantums are cheaper to run than panel heaters.

You would be better off doing some proper heat calculations based on your room size and material constructions (calculators are available on t'interweb) rather than using the Quantum website room size guess (it tends to underestimate the heater size)

Bigger or awkwardly shaped rooms often benefit from two smaller heaters, one at each end rather than a big one in the middle and more kw will heat the room faster and maintain the temp better than an undersized heater.

The thermostat will control the energy so going a bit bigger than the estimate shouldn't cost more to run whereas an undersized heater may not ever get the place up to temperature if it gets everso cold

lilac_dawn

I don't think a storage heater is a good idea in a bedroom though, is it? The quantum I have makes too much noise for that anyway. 
https://www.tradingdepot.co.uk/d150e-dimplex-mk1e-oil-filled-panel-radiator-1-5kw?ff=1&fp=128844&of_tid=MFRWG5B5GQZTOJTGMVSWISLEHUYSM4DSN5SESZB5HA4TAMZT&campaignid=17073088244&network=x&adGroupId=&device=c&adtype=pla&product-channel=online&keyword=&placement=&adposition=&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw_sq2BhCUARIsAIVqmQtRity9aWeCJNU-Mv-YcFuig0LZQUZD68LDpIydBog5jQb11C50pjEaAnE3EALw_wcB

What about an oil filled panel like this? 

Gerry1

lilac_dawn said:

Gerry1 said:

If you don't use the bedroom for working at home and you can leave the door open so it gets enough heat in the day to avoid damp and mould, then an oil filled radiator with good thermostatic control on an E7 circuit might fit the bill.

Pretty much fit and forget !

However, beware that some areas can have split E7 times.

Is that a thing on wheels though? Does it make much noise clicking on and off? We do have split times here but that's OK. 

Haven't used one but you can get programmable hard-wired wall-mounted oil-filled radiators with electronic thermostatic control.

https://www.screwfix.com/c/heating-plumbing/oil-filled-radiators/cat7230008?fittingtype=wall_mounted

Sounds like the temperate control should be accurate and silent.

If programmable it wouldn't even need an E7 circuit, but you'd need to take great care to make sure it's always accurately slaved to your meter's E7 cheap rate times (beware of GMT/BST).  Also make sure one E7 outlet has a neon indicator so you're certain E7 when is active.

• Ignore the claim that heat retention makes them cheaper to run.

• Hadn't seen your previous post — you beat me to it !

Scot_39

In larger spaces combination of low air circulation and passive heat sources can be a big issue - essentially the heat ften pools immediately in front of and above - an even bigger pain in old properties with often larger rooms and higher ceilings.

In other countries ceiling fans are more common - reversing direction in winter summer to help heating and cooling costs 

But a simple even low powered fan can disrupt that pooling - help heat circulate.

I dont heat my bedrooms - but use nsh in halls - but will sometimes use a fan to increase air flow in / or rather out of doorway at floor level to increase circulation.
 
Many electrical heaters kind of ping as elements heat and then cool - I use a oil filled radiator in living room before can committ tomnsh use in autumn - it would wake me iv used in bedroom - but even some gch radiators and pipework do so - more of creek and crack - too - and if sensitive to it in a bedroom - a pain.

In a flat you may never get permission for ashp - or to drill external walls for reverse air conditioning style per room heaters that also have a COP efficiency boost / cost saving.  But you could look into pricing and/or ask the freeholders if possible.  

That means nsh on best available e7 type deal likely next cheapest to run - at least for "all day" heating - but not to buy and install. 

Unless want to take a punt on Agile and it's at least historically often even cheaper off peak day and night time 1/2 hourly rates (sometimes even negative) - a few here have even been posting on automated timings via smart switches based on its dynamic pricing model iirc.

I considered upgrading my ancient manual dial storage heaters- but the cost for 3 (1 large, 2 med pre RF models ),was c£3k installed and disposal old 2019/20 - and I already have the restricted off peak meter, consumer panel and charge circuit input wiring for dual input mode.

But if I assume owner and planning on staying a long time....

On flip side - how efficient is the flat - and what could you do to improve efficiency for similar sort of money ??

Use less energy or same cheaper = savings.  Do both combined = bigger savings

lilac_dawn

I used to have gas central heating many moons ago and that used to wake me too it's just this panel heater seems exceptionally loud - not just one click, either!
I don't want a heat pump anyway and so it is what it is. This is a work in progress: the place had been rented out for 20 years, since being built, and so was a bit neglected. First winter was to establish why the wiring was wrong - 2 storage heaters were wired to constantly on. Electrician reckoned that originally the developers planned to put in an electric fireplace, which makes sense, as that was one of the options. I had the SH serviced, moved the large bedroom heater out to the living room, moved the tiny storage heater out to the 2nd bedroom (used for WFH) and installed the panel heater. 2nd winter replaced 2 of the storage heaters with quantums. 
This now winter 3, I believe
I'm not planning on moving for a while so would rather keep improving to get it as good as it can be. That first winter was freezing as I couldn't get the electricians in for quite a while. The only other improvement could be the loft insulation - but technically it's not my loft. 
I think I am going to fix with EDF. I was looking at ESure (?) but I'd rather fix and be done, I think. That will mean a smart meter being installed which might actually help to keep an eye on things. I have an OWL but it's old and it can be a bit erratic. I've had experience of Economy 7 for 20 years so I'm well versed in it. The difference is now the rooms are bigger and there are more floor to ceiling windows - but I knew they would be challenges of heating it when I moved in. 

Reed_Richards

lilac_dawn said:

I don't think a storage heater is a good idea in a bedroom though, is it? 

I don't see why not.  Okay, in times past storage heaters would tend to leak a lot of heat and that might make the bedroom too hot.  But I don't think a modern storage heater would that, would it? 

lilac_dawn

Reed_Richards said:

lilac_dawn said:

I don't think a storage heater is a good idea in a bedroom though, is it? 

I don't see why not.  Okay, in times past storage heaters would tend to leak a lot of heat and that might make the bedroom too hot.  But I don't think a modern storage heater would that, would it? 

Well the brand new quantum (which has a fault so perhaps isn't the best yardstick, as it were) is noisy - clicking again but the fan of course pushes out the heat. I think the older quantum might be a bit quieter but again uses a fan. 

lilac_dawn

Scot_39 said:

In larger spaces combination of low air circulation and passive heat sources can be a big issue - essentially the heat ften pools immediately in front of and above - an even bigger pain in old properties with often larger rooms and higher ceilings.

In other countries ceiling fans are more common - reversing direction in winter summer to help heating and cooling costs 

But a simple even low powered fan can disrupt that pooling - help heat circulate.

I dont heat my bedrooms - but use nsh in halls - but will sometimes use a fan to increase air flow in / or rather out of doorway at floor level to increase circulation.
 
Many electrical heaters kind of ping as elements heat and then cool - I use a oil filled radiator in living room before can committ tomnsh use in autumn - it would wake me iv used in bedroom - but even some gch radiators and pipework do so - more of creek and crack - too - and if sensitive to it in a bedroom - a pain.

In a flat you may never get permission for ashp - or to drill external walls for reverse air conditioning style per room heaters that also have a COP efficiency boost / cost saving.  But you could look into pricing and/or ask the freeholders if possible.  

That means nsh on best available e7 type deal likely next cheapest to run - at least for "all day" heating - but not to buy and install. 

Unless want to take a punt on Agile and it's at least historically often even cheaper off peak day and night time 1/2 hourly rates (sometimes even negative) - a few here have even been posting on automated timings via smart switches based on its dynamic pricing model iirc.

I considered upgrading my ancient manual dial storage heaters- but the cost for 3 (1 large, 2 med pre RF models ),was c£3k installed and disposal old 2019/20 - and I already have the restricted off peak meter, consumer panel and charge circuit input wiring for dual input mode.

But if I assume owner and planning on staying a long time....

On flip side - how efficient is the flat - and what could you do to improve efficiency for similar sort of money ??

Use less energy or same cheaper = savings.  Do both combined = bigger savings

Very true about the ceiling fans: I lived in Canada for a while, where it is very common. 

Swipe

An old style storage heater is fine for me in the bedroom. I keep it turned down pretty low it's no hotter than 16/17C by morning and then use an electric blanket and fan heater while i'm getting ready for bed at night when there's a cold spell. I both put on max for ten mins then turn them off when I get into bed.