Tradesman increased quote (x4) AFTER deposit paid

Booster1234

Grumpy_chap said:

pinkshoes said:

Deposit of 20% will be required to secure the contract and will be held in the contractors deposit account until work commences all deposits are non refundable unless the contractor cancels the project or cannot commit 

Seems straightforward to me. The contractor can no longer commit to the original quote and project therefore he needs to refund the deposit in full.

There is NO WAY in that short space of time a quote can quadruple in price due to deterioration. He has clearly mis-quoted.

I don't think he misquoted.
We don't know the size, but £8.5k is in the sort of range you'd expect for a driveway.  Including preparing sub base.
£40k is way over.

For some reason, the trader no longer wants this job - odd they are not returning the deposit though.

Yes, it's very weird - Either way, he seems to have decided that's the end of it so will speak to CAB tomorrow and a legal helpline we can access via work and see where we go from here. 

ThumbRemote

This is a fairly simple case. He's taken your money to provide a service. He can either provide that service or refund you. It's pretty irrelevant what the T&Cs say, although as others have said they are in your favour anyway. 

Section 50 of the Consumer Rights Act covers quotes, and says "A change to any of the information ... made before entering into the contract or later, is not effective unless expressly agreed between the consumer and the trader." You haven't agreed; the contract can't be changed. Section 54 gives your remedy for this, which includes the phrase "seeking to recover money paid where the consideration for payment of the money has failed" 
See https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/part/1/chapter/4

I can't see it mentioned - how did you pay? And as someone also asked, who did you pay? Was it a limited company, or a personal account?

Booster1234

ThumbRemote said:

This is a fairly simple case. He's taken your money to provide a service. He can either provide that service or refund you. It's pretty irrelevant what the T&Cs say, although as others have said they are in your favour anyway. 

Section 50 of the Consumer Rights Act covers quotes, and says "A change to any of the information ... made before entering into the contract or later, is not effective unless expressly agreed between the consumer and the trader." You haven't agreed; the contract can't be changed. Section 54 gives your remedy for this, which includes the phrase "seeking to recover money paid where the consideration for payment of the money has failed" 
See https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/part/1/chapter/4

I can't see it mentioned - how did you pay? And as someone also asked, who did you pay? Was it a limited company, or a personal account?

Paid by BACS (no CC option to pay else would have done that) and into a business account. Yes, LTD company.

Thanks for the info, this is very helpful! 

Jenni_D

Just as a thought ... assuming you know his name, try a search on Companies House for him as owner/director of other companies. Alternatively search for the company and then see if there are linked directorships under his name. (If he is well-regarded then it probably won't happen, but sometimes people can go out of business then phoenix under a new name, especially with LTD companies as their liability is limited. If he appears several times under such circumstances then you might find court action to recover your deposit more problematic).

I hope this doesn't happen - I just wanted to make you aware that raising and winning a court claim isn't the end of the road and doesn't automatically get you your money back.

Booster1234

Jenni_D said:

Just as a thought ... assuming you know his name, try a search on Companies House for him as owner/director of other companies. Alternatively search for the company and then see if there are linked directorships under his name. (If he is well-regarded then it probably won't happen, but sometimes people can go out of business then phoenix under a new name, especially with LTD companies as their liability is limited. If he appears several times under such circumstances then you might find court action to recover your deposit more problematic).

I hope this doesn't happen - I just wanted to make you aware that raising and winning a court claim isn't the end of the road and doesn't automatically get you your money back.

Thanks Jenni - this is what happened with a previous builder we used who did shoddy, dangerous work, then liquidated......

But the plot thickens. I've just googled the company we've used and the website is no longer active. There is another company however 'XXXX working in partnership with (name of company we've used)', directed by the same man (the guy who came and shook his head) and seemingly an identikit business. However, I've just checked companies house and it seems he's applied for a voluntary strike off of this 'partner' organisation - application dated early July. The first notice has been issued in The Gazette.

Additionally, I've just cross referenced the VAT number on the invoice he issued which we paid the deposit against, and this VAT number no seems to be registered to a company of his own name (literally first name, surname, ltd) and NOT the company he'd been outwardly trading as. The bank account we paid into was a named business account (in the business name) - it now all feels really shady and that we've just been shown smoke and mirrors throughout.

I'll seek legal advice tomorrow but I've got no idea what this all means in practicality. 

Booster1234

To clarify with an update... I can now see on an email signature he sent a while back it actually says '(his personal name ltd) trading as (company name we've been working with)' and that Ltd company (the one with his personal name) is still up and running and has not issued a strike off, so I assume this means we'd still be good to go with small claims etc as this is the ltd company that would be listed etc..... sorry for waffle. Just thinking out loud! Will see what CAB and legal helpline says tomorrow. Thanks for all your comments thus far - very, very much appreciated.

MikeJXE

Just remember, just because you might win in court doesn’t mean you get your money back or your costs of trying. 

Booster1234

MikeJXE said:

Just remember, just because you might win in court doesn’t mean you get your money back or your costs of trying. 

Understood. We know we might not get a penny. But we don’t want him to have it either, not by underhand means, so we’ll explore all avenues in the hope he doesn’t do it to others in the future. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Booster1234 said:

so I assume this means we'd still be good to go with small claims etc as this is the ltd company that would be listed etc

Hello OP

A company can fold at any time, when looking at Companies House you can click on the director's name and it will show other companies they have or had in the past, the filing history might also show whether the company has any assets.

Given the circumstances stated of giving a low quote, taking a deposit and then upping the price 4 fold and refusing to refund the deposit I do wonder if the odds of getting anything back via small claims might sadly be slim. 

saajan_12

Step 1 is are you due the deposit back -> YES
If he refuses or fails to do the job as agreed, then it would be due back regardless of his T&Cs. As it happens, his T&C actually agrees with this, albeit poorly drafted, so it might be easier to argue on that basis: 

Booster1234 said:

b)Variations or additions to a clients order or acceptance must be agreed with a Director and will be confirmed in writing by the contractor. No variations or amendments will be made unless agreed in this way.

..

a)Deposit of 20% will be required to secure the contract and will be held in the contractors deposit account until work commences all deposits are non refundable unless the contractor cancels the project or cannot commit 

Step 2 is who are you due the money from.. you had made the contract with the entity that made the quote and you supplied the bank details. That may or may not be teh same entity that is now contacting you.