Winter Fuel Allowance under discussion by Martin.

westv

MeteredOut said:

westv said:

MeteredOut said:

molerat said:

Baldeagle095 said:

Much more equitable would be to concentrate on abolishing the iniquitous Standing Charge and increase the Unit Rate to compensate for the Standing Charge.
Martin should aim his fire at this.

Done to death on the correct thread on the subject.

Done to death, resurrected a few times, killed off a few more times, come back to haunt most threads that mention the standing charge, killed again, and yet it still lives on... 

You used to be able to get rates without a SC but I can't remember why they were all removed.

You could ask on one of the many threads about the SC, rather than one about the winter allowance becoming means tested

......which diverted on to the SC without my intervention.

Nebulous2

twopenny said:

Is it right that MP's get a huge alowance for utility bills while they force those barely managing to be frightened of the winter and have to seek out warm places away from home to spend their days?

I know this is dated a couple of years back but don't have time to search for current numbers. I can't believe it would go down.

https://fullfact.org/online/MPs-no-upper-limit-heating-expenses/

To me the government made the hole by their (mis)managing of the ecconomy and have done nothing to stop the prices rising other than to claw back yet more money from the vulnerable.

I'm not sure this is appropriate, but:- 

I regularly worked away from home. My employer paid my accommodation costs, and gave me an allowance towards food I bought while away. That was to ensure I wasn't out of pocket by being away. In my first such role it was a great novelty for the first few months, staying in a hotel, at somebody else's expense. After that it became boring very quickly. 

MPs aren't or shouldn't be any different. They have houses, families and bills at home, in their constituencies. Their work demands that they spend several days a week in London, sometimes hundreds of miles away. They get their expenses paid for that. 

That's the theory. In practice some gamed it, as some people in big organisations always do. That was tightened up considerably, and has independent oversight now. However they should only be refunded the additional costs of doing their work, like I and millions of other people were. 

woolly_wombat

westv said:

You used to be able to get rates without a SC but I can't remember why they were all removed.

Utilita is the only supplier in the UK that still offers no standing charge.

https://www.energy-review.co.uk/guides/no-standing-charge-suppliers/

zagfles

Nebulous2 said:

twopenny said:

Is it right that MP's get a huge alowance for utility bills while they force those barely managing to be frightened of the winter and have to seek out warm places away from home to spend their days?

I know this is dated a couple of years back but don't have time to search for current numbers. I can't believe it would go down.

https://fullfact.org/online/MPs-no-upper-limit-heating-expenses/

To me the government made the hole by their (mis)managing of the ecconomy and have done nothing to stop the prices rising other than to claw back yet more money from the vulnerable.

I'm not sure this is appropriate, but:- 

I regularly worked away from home. My employer paid my accommodation costs, and gave me an allowance towards food I bought while away. That was to ensure I wasn't out of pocket by being away. In my first such role it was a great novelty for the first few months, staying in a hotel, at somebody else's expense. After that it became boring very quickly. 

MPs aren't or shouldn't be any different. They have houses, families and bills at home, in their constituencies. Their work demands that they spend several days a week in London, sometimes hundreds of miles away. They get their expenses paid for that. 

That's the theory. In practice some gamed it, as some people in big organisations always do. That was tightened up considerably, and has independent oversight now. However they should only be refunded the additional costs of doing their work, like I and millions of other people were. 

Bet you didn't get free clothes, pop concerts, parties and holidays though. 

Nebulous2

zagfles said:

Nebulous2 said:

twopenny said:

Is it right that MP's get a huge alowance for utility bills while they force those barely managing to be frightened of the winter and have to seek out warm places away from home to spend their days?

I know this is dated a couple of years back but don't have time to search for current numbers. I can't believe it would go down.

https://fullfact.org/online/MPs-no-upper-limit-heating-expenses/

To me the government made the hole by their (mis)managing of the ecconomy and have done nothing to stop the prices rising other than to claw back yet more money from the vulnerable.

I'm not sure this is appropriate, but:- 

I regularly worked away from home. My employer paid my accommodation costs, and gave me an allowance towards food I bought while away. That was to ensure I wasn't out of pocket by being away. In my first such role it was a great novelty for the first few months, staying in a hotel, at somebody else's expense. After that it became boring very quickly. 

MPs aren't or shouldn't be any different. They have houses, families and bills at home, in their constituencies. Their work demands that they spend several days a week in London, sometimes hundreds of miles away. They get their expenses paid for that. 

That's the theory. In practice some gamed it, as some people in big organisations always do. That was tightened up considerably, and has independent oversight now. However they should only be refunded the additional costs of doing their work, like I and millions of other people were. 

Bet you didn't get free clothes, pop concerts, parties and holidays though. 

When I started as a nurse I was given a grey hairy suit, which resembled what a postman wore at the time. Two pairs of trousers and one jacket. That and ten white coats. That's the only clothes I can recollect getting free. 

The whole lobbying thing is completely out of control, but at least it isn't publicly funded. When is a bribe not a bribe? 

dealyboy

Nebulous2 said:

zagfles said:

Nebulous2 said:

twopenny said:

Is it right that MP's get a huge alowance for utility bills while they force those barely managing to be frightened of the winter and have to seek out warm places away from home to spend their days?

I know this is dated a couple of years back but don't have time to search for current numbers. I can't believe it would go down.

https://fullfact.org/online/MPs-no-upper-limit-heating-expenses/

To me the government made the hole by their (mis)managing of the ecconomy and have done nothing to stop the prices rising other than to claw back yet more money from the vulnerable.

I'm not sure this is appropriate, but:- 

I regularly worked away from home. My employer paid my accommodation costs, and gave me an allowance towards food I bought while away. That was to ensure I wasn't out of pocket by being away. In my first such role it was a great novelty for the first few months, staying in a hotel, at somebody else's expense. After that it became boring very quickly. 

MPs aren't or shouldn't be any different. They have houses, families and bills at home, in their constituencies. Their work demands that they spend several days a week in London, sometimes hundreds of miles away. They get their expenses paid for that. 

That's the theory. In practice some gamed it, as some people in big organisations always do. That was tightened up considerably, and has independent oversight now. However they should only be refunded the additional costs of doing their work, like I and millions of other people were. 

Bet you didn't get free clothes, pop concerts, parties and holidays though. 

When I started as a nurse I was given a grey hairy suit, which resembled what a postman wore at the time. Two pairs of trousers and one jacket. That and ten white coats. That's the only clothes I can recollect getting free. 

The whole lobbying thing is completely out of control, but at least it isn't publicly funded. When is a bribe not a bribe? 

... you didn't holiday in Tibet by any chance 

jintyart

I think they should give the allowance to any person has the state pension only.  That would surely help those who are on the lowest income, whilst being easy to identify those people.

JoeCrystal

Not that straightforward to mean test. After all, it is possible to get around £20k per year on old state pension due to SERPS and so on.

Beside are you also saying that it is only state pensioners with no assets and no alternative incomes? Well, how do you find them?

As I said, not easy to find these people. What about people who have no state pensions? Should they be excluded as well?

Frankly, state pensions with its triple lock policy will only ever become more generous anyway. For now.

hugheskevi

jintyart said:

I think they should give the allowance to any person has the state pension only.  That would surely help those who are on the lowest income, whilst being easy to identify those people.

Fairly brutal on those who contracted out into an Appropriate Personal Pension but never had any other pension.

RogerPensionGuy

Exodi said:

sheramber said:

Surely all the extra claimants for pension credit the Government are pushing will cost more than the WFS did.

This argument has been made to death.

The government clearly thinks it will not, and I'm sure even the most cynical among us will agree that it's unlikely to be anywhere near 100% uptake from the ~880,000 potential PC claimants.

Even if it was cash neutral, it would still be hard to argue that it's a bad thing to change the skew of benefit recipients towards the lower income end.

I don't think this dynamic has been pushed enough, if the 880K people all signed up, the cold weather allowance footshooter would be adding to the black hole, plus all the extra hospital admissions and NHS workloads and call outs etc will just top up the black hole.

The way in which these cold weather payments have been changed without understanding or consultation is just laughable, it's not just a footshooter, it's a double footshooter or a perfect mess to make in the honeymoon zone.

I'm just going sit back, enjoy the PR flak and enjoy as they do a 3 point turn hitting the kerbs and lampposts, they just keep giving and my social media streams are full of jokes and thinking I need more mobile memory.

Maybe Non-Doms will get cold weather payments restored in the next giving event to keep them happy.