Octopus direct debit guarantee.

scottyp123

Hi, Octopus are now demanding far too much money per month as a direct debit so I asked them to change me to the variable DD so I only pay what the monthly bill is, however they ignored this and tried to take a large payment again this month so I cancelled the DD before they had a chance.

I then received an email regarding the DD cancellation saying that was fine but they were going to put my prices up a bit. This surprised me because a couple of years ago they stated on their website that - 

"Though we recommend paying by monthly direct debit, you'll never be penalised with different rates if you choose a different payment method"

I took a screenshot of this at the time as I do with a lot of information. I sent them this info and they basically have now said tough, that's not our policy anymore. How does that work, they quite clearly stated "never", to me that means for the rest of time, not a year or two, can they just say tough we lied through our teeth at the time? 

I just don't get why they always want money up front in their account, if I buy a TV at £300 they dont say you need to give us £400 and we'll keep £100 until you need to buy something else but if you only want to give us £300 for the TV then the price is £350, no you just buy it and that is that.

booneruk

Have they agreed to switch to variable direct debit and to reinstate your DD in order to take the full amount owing according to fresh and accurate meter readings? That sounds like the best way out of this.

scottyp123

Yes, the DD isn't a problem as such, I'm just miffed that they stated they would never do something and then did it anyway. I remember the fiasco around some CCTV cameras that stated cloud storage would be free forever and then after a couple of years started charging for it, everyone was able to return the cameras for a a full refund even a few years later as the T&C had changed after the fact.

scottyp123

Also I am actually in credit even after this months bill so I don't even know what they are crying about.

MattMattMattUK

scottyp123 said:

Hi, Octopus are now demanding far too much money per month as a direct debit so I asked them to change me to the variable DD so I only pay what the monthly bill is, however they ignored this and tried to take a large payment again this month so I cancelled the DD before they had a chance.

I then received an email regarding the DD cancellation saying that was fine but they were going to put my prices up a bit. This surprised me because a couple of years ago they stated on their website that - 

"Though we recommend paying by monthly direct debit, you'll never be penalised with different rates if you choose a different payment method"

I took a screenshot of this at the time as I do with a lot of information. I sent them this info and they basically have now said tough, that's not our policy anymore. How does that work, they quite clearly stated "never", to me that means for the rest of time, not a year or two, can they just say tough we lied through our teeth at the time? 

I just don't get why they always want money up front in their account, if I buy a TV at £300 they dont say you need to give us £400 and we'll keep £100 until you need to buy something else but if you only want to give us £300 for the TV then the price is £350, no you just buy it and that is that.

If one is on budget/fixed Direct Debit the energy supplier is required to try and charge close to 1/12th of the annual energy cost each month, whilst also ensuring that the customer does not go into debt at any point in the year, quite a difficult balancing act.

scottyp123 said:

Yes, the DD isn't a problem as such, I'm just miffed that they stated they would never do something and then did it anyway.

Their hand was forced by Ofgem. Octopus were very clear about it when they made the changes and personally I feel it makes more sense, otherwise those with Direct Debit payments were subsidising those who pay by alternative payment methods. 

scottyp123 said:

I remember the fiasco around some CCTV cameras that stated cloud storage would be free forever and then after a couple of years started charging for it, everyone was able to return the cameras for a a full refund even a few years later as the T&C had changed after the fact.

Calling it a "fiasco" is somewhat overblown, but that was also different, it was a product that was purchased and and then it stopped doing it, that was a breach of the CRA, so they refunded when people returned the product. This is entirely different.

scottyp123 said:

Also I am actually in credit even after this months bill so I don't even know what they are crying about.

The aim is to build up credit over the summer to cover increased usage over winter, one would expect to be in credit at this point in time, usually by 2-3 months payments. They are not "crying" about anything, they are just following the rules to try and keep your payments averaged over the year. 

Now you have switched to variable Direct Debit it is up to you to manage the seasonal variance in your energy bills and make sure you put the money aside to cover the increased winter bills. 

double_dutchy

Hello scottyp123

You may get more feedback if you post this in the energy forum or ask for it to be moved there

I'm an Octopus customer - I think Octopus have now changed to charging more if you don't pay by DD, I'm not sure how that squares with ther promise never to charge more.

I have a fixed DD with Octopus and I can change the amount online myself. As long as you stay in credit you can usually change the DD to whatever you want.

Obviously if you have asked to pay by variable DD they should action that. If you use X then Octopus will normally respond to a complaint more quickly on there, otherwise I would email.

An alternative to variable DD is to have a low DD, e.g. £1 and then just pay any extra by any other method, e.g. credit card as and when required. Because you still have the DD in place you will still benefit from the lower prices while not actually paying (mostly) by DD

Hoenir

double_dutchy said:

I'm an Octopus customer - I think Octopus have now changed to charging more if you don't pay by DD, I'm not sure how that squares with ther promise never to charge more.

Those that don't pay by direct debit cost the energy companies more one way or another. Choice is the consumers. 

BarelySentientAI

double_dutchy said:.

Obviously if you have asked to pay by variable DD they should action that. If you use X then Octopus will normally respond to a complaint more quickly on there, otherwise I would email.

Why? They don't have to offer variable direct debit to any customer, it is entirely their discretion.

bob2302

double_dutchy said:

Hello scottyp123

I'm an Octopus customer - I think Octopus have now changed to charging more if you don't pay by DD,
...

An alternative to variable DD is to have a low DD, e.g. £1 and then just pay any extra by any other method, e.g. credit card as and when required. Because you still have the DD in place you will still benefit from the lower prices while not actually paying (mostly) by DD

A variable DD is still a DD. Are you saying that Octopus charge more for variable DDs? 

scottyp123

BarelySentientAI said:

double_dutchy said:.

Obviously if you have asked to pay by variable DD they should action that. If you use X then Octopus will normally respond to a complaint more quickly on there, otherwise I would email.

Why? They don't have to offer variable direct debit to any customer, it is entirely their discretion.

What's so special about energy bills that you have to pay more than you owe, it doesn't happen with anything else that you buy. At the moment my bills are about £70 per month for gas and electric but Octopus want me to pay £160 a month, that's crazy. In the olden days you got a bill after a quarter and then you toddled off to the electric or gas showroom and paid the bill by cash or cheque, you had in effect 3 month credit with them so you were mostly in debt to them. Nowadays they want your money up front.

I don't mind paying the same amount each month as long as it works in my favour though so to do this I always changed suppliers in the autumn when my gas usage starts to go up, doing it this way I was always in debt over the winter but it evened itself out over the summer months, just like it always used to be. 

I just don't get why my money needs to be in their bank and not mine before I owe it to them, it doesn't make any sense to me. If a situation arises that I deem more important than an electric bill I'll be able to get my hands on the money a lot easier if its in my bank than theirs.

Having said all that though I like the idea of a £1 a month DD and paying the rest off by card each month, that sounds perfect.

BarelySentientAI

scottyp123 said:

BarelySentientAI said:

double_dutchy said:.

Obviously if you have asked to pay by variable DD they should action that. If you use X then Octopus will normally respond to a complaint more quickly on there, otherwise I would email.

Why? They don't have to offer variable direct debit to any customer, it is entirely their discretion.

What's so special about energy bills that you have to pay more than you owe, it doesn't happen with anything else that you buy. At the moment my bills are about £70 per month for gas and electric but Octopus want me to pay £160 a month, that's crazy. In the olden days you got a bill after a quarter and then you toddled off to the electric or gas showroom and paid the bill by cash or cheque, you had in effect 3 month credit with them so you were mostly in debt to them. Nowadays they want your money up front.

I don't mind paying the same amount each month as long as it works in my favour though so to do this I always changed suppliers in the autumn when my gas usage starts to go up, doing it this way I was always in debt over the winter but it evened itself out over the summer months, just like it always used to be. 

I just don't get why my money needs to be in their bank and not mine before I owe it to them, it doesn't make any sense to me. If a situation arises that I deem more important than an electric bill I'll be able to get my hands on the money a lot easier if its in my bank than theirs.

Having said all that though I like the idea of a £1 a month DD and paying the rest off by card each month, that sounds perfect.

You don't see how those two points are a very good reason?  Why shouldn't they want the money up front if you're going to decide that something else is more important than paying the bill?

What other things are delivered to your house at the instant you want them, which you then pay for a month after you've used them at zero risk of paying any interest?  Somehow it does seem to be a special arrangement, no?

What a strange position you are taking - "I demand that the company offers me interest free credit that I might decide to pay back or might not, on whatever terms I demand it to be".

You owe it to them at the moment you use the electricity or gas.  And you owe them the standing charges every day.  Not three months (or even one month) later.  So your idea of "it should be in my bank until I owe it" means you should be paying a bill at least every day.  That's obviously a nonsense concept.

As for why they want you to pay so much, it's probably partly due to your "always change in the autumn so the first thing I do is go into debt" plan.  The regulator has decided that people being in debt for most of the year is a bad thing and has told suppliers to try and make sure this does not happen.  A £70 summer bill could easily be a £200 winter bill (or more), so they have been told to put you in enough credit that you don't go below 0 balance.

You don't like the DD arrangements, then don't pay by DD.  You are aware of the consequences.