Plug in solar

greyteam1959

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82039347#Comment_82039347

So we are now calling plug in solar PIS ???

😁😁😁😁😁

Scot_39

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82039114#Comment_82039114

Why - you or your landlord / freeholder should have own insurance - or face the consequences.

No different from those who dont take travel / medical insurance out when going overseas. And lose £1000s to save £10s.

Alnat1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82039905#Comment_82039905

What if it's a Plug In Solar System? 🤣

Scot_39

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82039140#Comment_82039140

Yes

Fires -

Balcony solar panel fires are well reported in Germany.

There increasingly being reported in UK for roof panels and associated electronics too.

Teh balcony panels iirc - at about the same incidence rate as other domestic appliances - say the infamous fridge freezer case.

However - given mounting - a fire on panel itself - it was suggested in one report - that few end up causing serious fires / block structural damage - invertors thats another issue - especially if indoors.

Falling off

Not sure seen stats - but see my above post to the German equivalent of a hybrid sort of Which/Trading standards test body reports - of stress testing on panel mounts - and the many mild to serious failures.

And that was on new kit - not kit exposed to elements and vibration etc - for years. How many do you reckon will check bolts for tightness and corrossion - weeks/months/years after fitting these panels. Or could spot a stress fracture about to fail.

Or the many posts of those who didn't mount properly - on roofs against walls / fences - and blew off.

And if there not fixed - but say just left on a balcony - then lots of other kit has blown off - lose - chairs - flower planters etc - but yes even flower boxes bolted onto balconies etc.

Some blocks now ban all kit from balconies - even in extremes if attended.

I can see many - understandably now even more risk averse - large block freeholders banning these balcony panels - for both reasons.

QrizB

There increasingly being reported in UK for roof panels and associated electronics too.

But they're still uncommon. They're only newsworthy because they're unusual.

For example, per this report:

According to QBE, UK fire services recorded 107 fires involving a solar panel in 2022.

The company reported that this rose to 128 incidents in 2023 and 171 in 2024.

Over the same period, QBE said the total number of installed solar panels nationally grew from 1,309,447 in 2022 to 1,697,231 in 2024.

So in 2024, with 1.7 million installations and 171 fires, that's one fire for every ten thousand installations.

Per this article there are 34000 house fires in the UK per year. Very roughly one fire for every thousand houses. So a house with solar panels is ~ten times more likely to experience a fire that isn't caused by the solar panels, rather than one which is.

Scot_39

A house with 2 risks is still riskier than a house with one and a house with none.

Would I not have solar because its a big risk - no - would I make sure I was insured for that risk - definitely.

In a small tenement - you might be looking at say 3-4 for half the flats - but those are typically wired more like individual homes

In a large block - you could be looking at say dozens - 50+ - feeding power not only back into flats - but the excess back through the blocks own distribution system.

And a risk of 4 is higher than one - a risk of 50 is far higher than the risk from one.

And I cannot help thinking - there is a lot or risk averse freeholders - and a lot of block tennats - who will be unwilling to support increasing - no matter how small - there blocks risk - after in some cases years of punitive insurance // fire safety costs many have faced (many still might).

flaneurs_lobster

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82040188#Comment_82040188

Sorry, PIS was my fault. Maybe PiS or is there another term that can be initialised?

(it's not an acronym because no-one's off to B&Q to ask for a PIS).

Reed_Richards

"Plug in Solar - a piece of PiS to install"

TroubledTarts

I couldn't find any documented source of balcony fires in Germany so please provide the link @Scot_39

I did find news that suggested they were so rare it's practically zero but I welcome your counter point when you find it.

As for risk, you have really dropped the bar low there, no one can deny anything electrical is a fire risk. Your kettle, toaster, radio, router etc etc intact every electrical item you have.

So in essence think of it as just one more appliance, that extra kettle or iron.

Everything is life carries a risk but you have to weigh that all up individually but you seem at the extreme end of the risk scale so plug in solar or an extra electrical device in your home is probably not worth the worry and anxiety to yourself.

Scot_39

just a couple of one off examples - sighting safety and fire risk in paricular - one panel related and one plug in storage related - as others here talk of going that route - with talk of France banning such systems completely.

https://www.zeit.de/news/2025-04/30/brand-nach-technischem-defekt-an-balkonkraftwerk

https://www.sunroveress.com/news/fire-in-germany-banned-in-france-is-the-biggest-obstacle-to-balco/

abd note a potential EU vs IEC regulation argument - one promoting in principle one defacto banning banning any connection to a final circuit - i.e. a plug in to normal ring main - that has the German balcony solar group asking EU to seek a rewrite.

https://www.energy-box.com/post/plug-in-pv-vs-eu-policy-germany-sparks-controversy

And note importantly balcony solar itself is still a relatively young use of panels / and the small compact lower power invertors etc - there is no long term install base to form a proven safety record.

A few years ago roof solar fires werent being reported as an issue (or e scooter and ebike etc etc) - they are now - and fire services being given new kit and training to deal - a risk - albeit a small one. One figure I have seen - 0.008% in one German report for all solar panel installs - but thats still or just only (depending on your risk attitude) 80 per million more fires per year - and if that figure applies to Germanies estim c1.5m balcony systems thats still/only 120 more fires - but its still 120 more than without - and if your unlucky to be one off them.

Some people will ignore common fire brigade advice and run heavy loads overnight to save on cheap rate. Despite say annual govt stats showing upto nearly 900 tumble dryer related fires every year - around 17% of domestic appliance fires. Washing machines around the same if not slightly higher according to LFB stats. Add dishwashers etc.

By comparisipon Fridge freezers despite running 24/ 7 - around half that risk - 8% of white goods fires. But we all saw terrible impact at Grenfell of just 1 in the wrong situation. Its not an easy sell to increase fire risk to people who own such blocks or their residents who have faced years of unable to sell, paying higher insurance, even paying for 24/7 fire warden patrols etc in similar blocks awaiting cladding replacement.

There are arguably many unauthorised at time plug in balcony systems in Germany - as they were only fornerly legalised in May 2024 - more about edtablishing a right to fit than the tech itself potentialky. But stats show plenty of balcony mounted systems before that date.

And data from UK for roof solar fires has seen the number increase not just with rollout but above - suggesting age could well be a factor.

https://qbeeurope.com/news-and-events/press-releases/uk-fire-services-tackle-a-solar-panel-fire-every-two-days/

you may think say a headline of 2 per day - c730 fires across well over a million domestic + industrial unit installs an acceptible risk - but again its not zero. And if its your house…

But note in tbat storage fire case - seems some now appear to be installing more than 800W of panels and storage to match - - but still being described as plug in storage. I wonder if thats then a reference to self install or the standard of used kit. (Was it just 2 sets of 800W kit connected to battery module in parallel etc)