Plug in solar

MSE_ForumTeam5

We've combined two threads

Scot_39

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81944058#Comment_81944058

Europe doesnt actually operate on the same voltage as UK - the rationalised 230V nominal was a typical EU style rationalisation to encompass both Europe's lower 220V +/- x% and UKs higher 240V +/- 6% nominals/ranges - and in many locals 245V+ is not uncommon in UK.

They might auto adjust up - or have a country setting etc - but id check first.

You might want to also check what import duty these might be liable for - potentially 20% vat if declared ?

i wonder if tfe current £400-500 includes vat, which might then disappear once approved.

thr ecoflow brand linked above basic kit - 2 standard panels and invertor - was on offer at £350 from £500 in recent past - abd that says taxes included iirc.

Ildhund

@Scot_39 wrote:

… in many locals [sic] 245V+ is not uncommon in UK.

The smart plug I use to monitor and control my 4G modem/router helpfully keeps track of its ~instantaneous power draw and usage over time. I was slightly alarmed the first time I noticed this:

246.6V is well within the tolerance, so there's no problem - is there?

[OT] In case you're wondering how I control a Wi-Fi smart plug when there's no network, this devilish clever device (a free gift from my electricity provider) just switches to Bluetooth if there's no Wi-Fi. I use it at least once each day because the 4G signal drops almost without fail sometime between 00:00 and 00:30, and while it will come back up eventually, the delay is usually intolerable. A quick power cycle of the router brings it back to life in a few minutes.

I've often wondered why this should be, and rather fondly imagine it's because Vodafone's nightly cleaner needs a socket to plug her hoover into when she gets to the server room.]

The image answers (with a lamentable lack of precision) that old question of how much energy a modem/router consumes. 60Wh a day = 22kWh a year, about £5-worth (at current prices, of course). I might fit a similar plug to my IHD to see how that compares.

tfhnota

My phone, when fully charged but with the charger still plugged in and used as 4G LTE hotspot (outrageously cheap if you get the right data plan) still draws 2W from the charger, so probably half goes to running the hotspot and the rest to android background tasks.

Merging two threads is a pretty horrible idea but there you go.

Scot_39

oops meant locales but i guess true in any locals in such locales.

how big a safety margin on the c253V max do solar invertors have before cut off ?

Martyn1981

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81944387#Comment_81944387

They should switch off when the grid voltage reaches 253V, then keep checking before switching back on. That's because they operate at a volt or two higher to 'push' the leccy into (and out) of the property against grid 'pressure'. Apologies to all electricians for the terrible analogy.

By switching off, they prevent pushing the local voltage even higher. I think the UK introduced this certification requirement in the early mid 2010's after Germany did it in the early 2010's.

Ironically, this annoyed some DNO's, as PV inverters switching off, told people that their local grid was running high. Otherwise they wouldn't have known, and the DNO's would have 'got away with it'. The legislation requiring them to be within -6%/+10% of 230V, specifically states even where SSEG's exist (small scale embedded generatoration) on the local grid.

QrizB

how big a safety margin on the c253V max do solar invertors have before cut off ?

Overvoltage protection cuts in after 1 second at 230V +14% (262.2V) per paragraph 10.1.3 of Engineering Recommendation G98:

https://www.energynetworks.org/assets/images/Resource%20library/ENA_EREC_G98_Issue_1_Amendment_5_%282021%29.pdf

262.2V at the inverter doesn't mean that voltage outside the property on the distribution network, of course.

QrizB

I can't immediately find the current German standard for comparison, but the 2006 draft calls for disconnection within 0.2 seconds of the voltage rises to 115% of the nominal voltage.

See paragraph 4.2.2 of DIN V VDE V 0126-1-1:

https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/ptab-filings%2FIPR2020-00964%2F1018

115% of 230V is 264.5V, so not that dissimilar to G98.

Netexporter

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81944527#Comment_81944527

That fits with what I observed, when a high impedance fault in the local network was making my inverter tip out, when the sun, deigned to show its face. The panels were fitted in November, so the voltage stayed within limits most of the time, so full sun events were few and far between.

Martyn1981

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81944527#Comment_81944527

Thanks, that's good news. I got my export limit under the old G59/2 regs, which where replaced with G98/G99, so good (I think?) to see the inverter limit has increased from the grid voltage.

Only ever had one shutdown, probably 10yrs ago, only the newer/cleverer inverter. The older/dumber SMA models 2011 (or earlier) were still happily chugging along and displaying grid voltage at 253V.

It was the 'classic' worst case scenario of a sunny, summer, Sunday afternoon, when UK life slows down, and so does grid demand, potentially raising voltage.