Advice on purchasing a home where survey has identified movement and damp

ljs_1985

Hi

I've had a buildings level 3 survey done on an 1890s house i'm buying and it's come back with a long list of defects but the 2 concerning me are

1) Damp - It's identified damp to external and internal front wall likely caused by damaged guttering. It recommends repairs to external, damp proofing, removing internal plaster and drying wall out. I think i'm fine with this and wondered if i'm in a position to ask seller to arrange this pre exchange? Or do i ask for a reduction in sale price to allow for this?

2) A significant crack to the front external wall, window sills that have dropped, uneven flooring all indicative that there's been movement however it does state that it appears to be historic. It also mentions evidence of repairs to external brickwork cracks done previously. The seller says he's not aware of issues, and it's not declared to the current insurer.

Is the correct thing for me to do to get a structural survey? Does any historic movement mean 'subsidence' and therefore need to be declared to an insurer? I looked at some quotes and it goes from being £400 a year to about £1600 per year if you declare historic subsidence with no ongoing issues.

Any help or advice would be appreciated, this is my first home purchase and i don't know what i should and shouldn't be concerned about or when to walk away

youth_leader

That's good considering the house's age.  I would want to know if the building had/has subsidence - I think there is a paper trail if work for underpinning has been done? 

 A fellow widow bought a bungalow without a survey and the whole building was sinking.  I'd definitely pay for a structural surveyor to have a look if the seller is saying he's not aware. 

auntie_prawn

If it was me I might ask vendor to make any obvious repairs to gutters (or provide a quote and ask for a discount) but I would pay for an engineers report. I would want them to be working for me not the vendor. If they give the house the all clear - great. If they are wrong they have professional indemnity insurance and if there is a problem you want to know that now. 

AlexMac

Old houses are very forgiving so nothing you describe would put me off, but as well as the advice above to commission your own survey, I’d feel happier having any work done myself after purchase, rather than leaving it to a seller who’ll want the cheapest job and who has no long term interest. 

You already seem on top of the need to eradicate any sources of damp from leaks, roof, rainwater goods, soil piled against walls, etc and not to fall for standard sales pitches from timber /damp treatment sales people ( chemicals, injection, tanking…). 

I guess you’ve already researched the many sources of advice about older or heritage homes; such as
https://www.heritage-house.org/damp-and-condensation/managing-damp-in-old-buildings.html

good luck!

stuart45

AlexMac said:

I guess you’ve already researched the many sources of advice about older or heritage homes; such as
https://www.heritage-house.org/damp-and-condensation/managing-damp-in-old-buildings.html

good luck!

The problem with that website is that Peter Ward makes a lot of this up. This is just one example cut and paste from that article. Holland has got loads of companies involved with damp proofing, and the country has loads of rising damp issues. They also use a DPC the same as we do. 

Association - or PCA for short.  

Did you know that in Holland, they don't even have damp courses? True... Even in new houses, damp proof courses are not required. They build their houses with their feet in the water, and they don't get damp walls. I teach Dutch architectural students at college, and they fall about laughing when we talk about what they call our 'Quaint English Custom' of damp courses and injection damp proofing. Sounds funny, but this is serious stuff - we are being defrauded to the tune of hundreds of millions a year, by chemical companies selling useless, fraudulent treatment.

FreeBear

ljs_1985 said: 1) Damp - It's identified damp to external and internal front wall likely caused by damaged guttering. It recommends repairs to external, damp proofing, removing internal plaster and drying wall out. I think i'm fine with this and wondered if i'm in a position to ask seller to arrange this pre exchange? Or do i ask for a reduction in sale price to allow for this?

Is this "damp proofing" a chemical injected DPC plus associated waterproof render/plaster internally ?

If so, I'd reject this out of hand. These "treatments" only mask the damp for a few years, and then you have to go back and do it all again as damp appears higher up the wall. Fixing the root cause (faulty guttering in your case and reducing external ground levels ) is the way to go. Much cheaper than getting a damp treatment company in. Depending on what the walls have been plastered with, leaving alone and running a dehumidifier will see the wall dry out (as long as the root cause has been fixed).

That said, if the walls have been skimmed with gypsum, the surface may have become powdery - Gypsum is water soluble and doesn't like to be damp for any length of time. Lime plaster is much more forgiving in this respect, but can "blow" or delaminate from the brickwork behind. Not a huge problem if the plaster is not cracked.

The structural issues would be best left to the expert opinion of a structural engineer. He/She may want to dig a test pit at the base of the wall which the vendor would probably refuse to allow.

Maahes

Don't trust surveys - get someone in to check the results. My daughter had a L3 survey recently on a 1900s house which identified nine L3 red issues including damp, wood boring beetle infestation, blocked drains, gutter issues as well as the usual gas, electric and heating. The owner said he wasn't aware of any of these issues and when she had a builder take a look he couldn't find evidence of any these issues (the supposed blocked drain was clear). I put the text of the survey into Google and found that the surveyor had simply copied and pasted from other surveys.

She's likely to only need a few roof tiles replaced.

ljs_1985

Thanks everyone, this is all so helpful as always. I'm going to ask if the seller would be prepared to sort the damp and guttering. If they will then i'll get a structural report myself and presumably i need to that to say that any movement is historic and that the property is structurally sound, and if not i walk away. I've looked at insurance quotes and it goes from about £300 per year with no mention of subsidence, to over £1000 and only a couple of insurers offering if i mention historic subs with a structural adequacy report so that's another annoyance but something i'll hve to accept if i proceed

auntie_prawn

Just on the damp - I would avoid getting seller to sort the damp as there are a number of ways to approach it and you want to make sure you are in control of a well researched and measured approach which you may not be if you ask seller to sort as a condition of sale. Gutters is ok as you can see them , but you don’t want to find he has injected to damp proof of gypsum plastered everything, which could cause challenges later. 

FreeBear

auntie_prawn said:

Just on the damp - I would avoid getting seller to sort the damp as there are a number of ways to approach it and you want to make sure you are in control of a well researched and measured approach which you may not be if you ask seller to sort as a condition of sale. Gutters is ok as you can see them , but you don’t want to find he has injected to damp proof of gypsum plastered everything, which could cause challenges later. 

If the vendor does the work, it will be the cheapest option. Slap a bit of stain block primer on the walls, followed by some emulsion. Covers the symptoms long enough for the sale to go through, but stops the wall from drying out properly (which will take months).

LHW99

likely caused by damaged guttering.

So not rising damp (if its water falling from the gutter), so having anyone put a DPC at the bottom of the wall is useless.