Structural Engineer when Buying House

gfriel2104

Bookworm105 said:

it is up to the buyer to get whatever reassurance they require
Working out if an internal wall is a load bearing one does not necessary need the expertise and cost of a structural engineer.
anyone with a tape measure can check if the bedroom wall aligns exactly with a wall on the floor below it. If it doesn't it is not structural. if it does, it may be but the only way to be certain of that would be lift floorboards in the bedroom and see if the wall is continuous in the void 

a general review of the layout of the house should also give a good idea of the internal partitioning arrangements. There is always a caveat that they are not to scale, but a glance at the estate agents floorplan would give you a start point.

I had no idea of that. The bulk of the wall and most annoying part isn't above anything below, There is an outdent from the wall which I believe is the chimney flue which may not be removable, but a slight outdent Vs an entire cupboard is a big difference. I'll look into that because if it's the case like you say, it wouldn't be a worry. Just for the sake of convo Ill post the floorplan below.

FreeBear

Section62 said:

Bookworm105 said:

...
Working out if an internal wall is a load bearing one does not necessary need the expertise and cost of a structural engineer.
anyone with a tape measure can check if the bedroom wall aligns exactly with a wall on the floor below it. If it doesn't it is not structural. if it does, it may be but the only way to be certain of that would be lift floorboards in the bedroom and see if the wall is continuous in the void 
...

^That is exactly why people should only rely on the advice of a qualified structural engineer, even if it costs them. There are too many other people who think they know how to do structural engineering without having the necessary knowledge and skills, e.g. asking a builder for structural advice is to be avoided.

A wall can be structural without there being a wall on the floor below it.

Indeed. The wall could be supporting the floor it sits on. It could be supporting the ceiling joists (I have two stud walls here doing just that), or it could be buttressing an external wall.

Removing a wall, any wall, without seeking the opinion of a structural engineer is foolish at best. You might get lucky with removing a wall without an expert opinion, or you could end up with a house that is at risk of collapse.

Bookworm105

ok so i failed to go into enough detail
obviously if joists cross a wall at right angles to the direction of the wall and are at least touching it, then the wall would be supporting them. What the wall is itself built on then indicates if the wall is designed to take that load, if the wall is upstairs and the joists are parallel to it with nothing on the floor below the wall, in a house setting, it is extremely unlikely the wall is a "floating" support to the floor it sits on.  Walls support what is above them, not what is below them.

if the wall is parallel to a joist it is either supporting that single joist (if joist touches it), or it is not load bearing at all 

looking at joist direction and what is under the wall is a reasonable way to asses what is a load bearing wall above the ground floor in a house.

Section62

Bookworm105 said:

ok so i failed to go into enough detail
obviously if joists cross a wall at right angles to the direction of the wall and are at least touching it, then the wall would be supporting them. What the wall is itself built on then indicates if the wall is designed to take that load, if the wall is upstairs and the joists are parallel to it with nothing on the floor below the wall, in a house setting, it is extremely unlikely the wall is a "floating" support to the floor it sits on.  Walls support what is above them, not what is below them.

if the wall is parallel to a joist it is either supporting that single joist (if joist touches it), or it is not load bearing at all 

looking at joist direction and what is under the wall is a reasonable way to asses what is a load bearing wall above the ground floor in a house.

Again, ^that is why people need to consult a qualified structural engineer. None of the above is correct.

Walls can support what is below them.  They can also support what is at the end(s) of them.  Walls can be structural without joists touching them. They can also have joists touching them and be non-structural.

A structural engineer will want to look at joist direction and what is under the wall, but they won't limit themselves to that.  There will be other things they need to check and this is why it is difficult for a buyer to get good advice from a SE because vendors tend not to want things being pulled apart for the SE to do their job properly.

stuart45

@Bookworm105, one of the methods used for an upper floor partition wall to support the floor joists below as well as the ceiling joists above is to built what's known as a trussed partition wall. The angle of the studwork transfers the loads to load bearing walls and down to the foundations.
This method is usually found in older properties where a large ground floor room is needed, but upper floor rooms are smaller.