Selling Internationally

davidian84

I used to ship internationally pre brexit but it all got too much, though im thinking of starting again.

I am not VAT registered and sell on ebay and Amazon. I currently sell on GSP (exc germany i think due to packaging law) and FBA. I keep reading about new rules on EORI, Hiring responsible person, registering for vat in every country.

Does anyone with low turnover sell internationally and is it worth it, and what would i need to do? 

DullGreyGuy

What are your estimated value of sales by country? What is the average and realistic maximum value of an international sale?

davidian84

Hard to say really its been years and im selling different stuff now. My average sale is £20 and id hope to add £10k to my yearly turnover.

martindow

I assume that you are selling from your own site rather than via eBay who deal with the VAT etc on your behalf providing it is under £150 in value.  The customer just sees the total cost.

Since Brexit, the formerly healthy European sales from my website are almost non-existent mainly because buyers now prefer to avoid UK sellers as they don't want the hassle either.  For heavy items or orders over £150 where I use companies like DPD I can pay the arrival customs fee in advance and can quote the customer an inclusive price.

The problem comes with small cheap items where the customer would have to pay a small amount of VAT but 10 euros or so clearance fee.  It looks as if that could be a problem for you.

Getting an EORI is straightforward

https://www.gov.uk/eori/apply-for-eori

When you send something internationally with Royal Mail or another carrier you need this, the weight and value of each item  and also have to find its commodity code which you can look up here

https://www.gov.uk/trade-tariff

You don't need to register for VAT in individual countries unless your turnover to a country exceeds a certain figure (several tens of thousands I think).  It's a far cry from the simplicity of sending goods a few years ago.

Edit:  Re-reading your post I may have misunderstood.  Using eBay, and probably Amazon too, handle the VAT payment and customs clearance.  The customer in Europe is quoted an inclusive price as long as it is not a high value shipment.  My comments mainly relate to selling directly from your own site.

davidian84

martindow said:

I assume that you are selling from your own site rather than via eBay who deal with the VAT etc on your behalf providing it is under £150 in value.  The customer just sees the total cost.

Since Brexit, the formerly healthy European sales from my website are almost non-existent mainly because buyers now prefer to avoid UK sellers as they don't want the hassle either.  For heavy items or orders over £150 where I use companies like DPD I can pay the arrival customs fee in advance and can quote the customer an inclusive price.

The problem comes with small cheap items where the customer would have to pay a small amount of VAT but 10 euros or so clearance fee.  It looks as if that could be a problem for you.

Getting an EORI is straightforward

https://www.gov.uk/eori/apply-for-eori

When you send something internationally with Royal Mail or another carrier you need this, the weight and value of each item  and also have to find its commodity code which you can look up here

https://www.gov.uk/trade-tariff

You don't need to register for VAT in individual countries unless your turnover to a country exceeds a certain figure (several tens of thousands I think).  It's a far cry from the simplicity of sending goods a few years ago.

Edit:  Re-reading your post I may have misunderstood.  Using eBay, and probably Amazon too, handle the VAT payment and customs clearance.  The customer in Europe is quoted an inclusive price as long as it is not a high value shipment.  My comments mainly relate to selling directly from your own site.

Thanks, yes ebay and amazon only.
I did get a EORI number but may have expired, and ive done commodity codes for Jersey.

My main worry was always customs, so if thats done automatically now then thats good. Though another cost along with items going missing and high return costs make it expensive.

I might trial it again, add a few quid to postage cost as insurance and see how things go.

soolin

I thought if you sent direct then only part of the costs were paid, but admit I had given up on direct International sales as soon as ebay offered GSP as my main issue had been with false INR claims raised well before items could possibly arrive. It annoyed me that on several occasions I was forced to refund buyers in full as early as day 10 or so where goods were still clearly in transit, and was rather cross when after switching to GSP I had several delayed items (covered by ebay of course) where buyers complained they waited 5 weeks or so for a refund from ebay.

This appears to imply that some charges are still the responsibility of the seller

Your VAT obligations in the UK & EU | eBay

although this implies the opposite.

International postage for sellers | eBay

Admittedly though when I buy from overseas which I do frequently I pay a price to which UK VAT is automatically added (I'm not buying via GSP) and the few things I bought recently were easy to do. I saw the price, it showed a clear message that 20% VAT might be added, and when I paid I paid my winning bid plus 20% and paypal converted the price from the local currency to sterling automatically. My items turn up (all under £135) with no additional tax or handling to pay.

martindow

soolin said:

I thought if you sent direct then only part of the costs were paid, but admit I had given up on direct International sales as soon as ebay offered GSP as my main issue had been with false INR claims raised well before items could possibly arrive. It annoyed me that on several occasions I was forced to refund buyers in full as early as day 10 or so where goods were still clearly in transit, and was rather cross when after switching to GSP I had several delayed items (covered by ebay of course) where buyers complained they waited 5 weeks or so for a refund from ebay.

This appears to imply that some charges are still the responsibility of the seller

Your VAT obligations in the UK & EU | eBay

although this implies the opposite.

International postage for sellers | eBay

Admittedly though when I buy from overseas which I do frequently I pay a price to which UK VAT is automatically added (I'm not buying via GSP) and the few things I bought recently were easy to do. I saw the price, it showed a clear message that 20% VAT might be added, and when I paid I paid my winning bid plus 20% and paypal converted the price from the local currency to sterling automatically. My items turn up (all under £135) with no additional tax or handling to pay.

I suppose eBay will always put the responsibility on the individual to be sure that they comply with rules which may change.

The VAT obligations page only applies if you sell a lot - over 10,000 Euros with some exceptions for digital products, so is not going to affect most of us.

New EU-wide threshold of EUR 10 000

The previous thresholds for distance sales of goods within the EU have been abolished and replaced by a new EU-wide threshold of EUR 10 000. Below this EUR 10 000 threshold, supplies of TBE (telecommunications, broadcasting and electronic) services and distance sales of goods within the EU may remain subject to VAT in the Member State where the taxable person is established.

I'm not sure if that is an annual figure or one which accumulates over time. 

martindow

davidian84 said:

I did get a EORI number but may have expired, and ive done commodity codes for Jersey.

My main worry was always customs, so if thats done automatically now then thats good. Though another cost along with items going missing and high return costs make it expensive.

I might trial it again, add a few quid to postage cost as insurance and see how things go.

I don't think EORI numbers expire, try here to see if it shows up

EU EORI and GB EORI Number Validation - Vatstack

davidian84

martindow said:

davidian84 said:

I did get a EORI number but may have expired, and ive done commodity codes for Jersey.

My main worry was always customs, so if thats done automatically now then thats good. Though another cost along with items going missing and high return costs make it expensive.

I might trial it again, add a few quid to postage cost as insurance and see how things go.

I don't think EORI numbers expire, try here to see if it shows up

EU EORI and GB EORI Number Validation - Vatstack

Yer i got a letter saying the gb one would be cancelled, i think too many people got one who didnt need it. I was reading that i would need one to ship to Northern ireland at the time.

RFW

Amazon have got something new for EU sales coming down the line but that may be just for FBA.
It's not really the turnover that's the issue it's the profitability. If you're selling high value items with a decent margin it may be worth it.
My products are largely English speaking market and low(ish) value. Prior to Brexit I had a bit of turnover in Germany, France, Spain and Italy. It was £2-3000 in each. I've tried reintroducing it but the costs were too prohibitive and the profits weren't there with so much extra work involved.
Also worth noting that Amazon have their own rules that can be above the country rules.