private "ticket" from North West Parking Ltd, pursued by DCBL. Won court case.

Coupon-mad

Lastly and most important my wife (the defendant) can not attend court (she finds the situation too stressful) how do I attend on her behalf.

You can't, without her.

Sorry - she must attend with you.

Come on: woman to woman (I've spoken at hearings v PPCs and never lost) it's no more stressful than a formal meeting with a clever old person who will know she's nervous and will set you both at ease.

You can only be her lay rep if she's there with you. BOTH of you - go to this little meeting.

skuther

Well we won the case, but it was all a bit farcical. Will give longer update when I get home.

Car1980

Brilliant!

Coupon-mad

skuther said:

Well we won the case, but it was all a bit farcical. Will give longer update when I get home.

Tell all, please! Well done!

ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST.

skuther

So we won the case, but odd day.

The client didn't turn up;. DCBL didn't turn up. instead an ELMS Legal rep turned up - and I almost felt sorry for them as the judge was asking them all sort of awkward question to which they had no answer. Plus claimant testimony downgraded to "hearsay" due to non-attendence.

After we sat down I started putting out the copies (I brought there just in case) of the Defence, witness statements / evidence pack in an orderly an easily accessible way on the desk in front of us - and the judge said what are you doing with all that paper, please tidy it up, which was not a good start as rather through me.

I later got my laptop out instead - which didn't seem to be a problem.

My wife ("the defendent") really did not want to go to court, but she did ok and the judge was quite forgiving with her.

The most challenging bit for me was staying quiet as I was not the defendant - and that I was not allowed to say anything or help in any way when she was giving her evidence.

For example the judge asked her about the relevant of the bylaws in the case - and she said she wasn't sure, I was pointing at the notes I had left in front of her with the answer on and and the judge asked (politely but firmly) me to stop.

The judge asked the legal rep is he had any questions for the defendant and he said no - to which the judge said some thing like - you have come all this way just to say nothing and ask nothing when the is a factual dispute between the two sides? that is unusual. so the legal rep came up with some seemingly pointless questions - like it is common knowledge that £100 is the default for any breech including overstay, do you accept this. I was rather wound up by that question slightly and spoke to the legal rep as he was was the claimant - and the judge gently but firmly pointed this out to me.

My wife was calm and honest - she admitted to overstaying right at the beginning - so then it was all about whether a contact had taken place about £100 penalty (the judge did not seem to entertain the possibility that it could be more than that).

However I spoke to give my eyewitness evidence and was also also to speak on her behalf afterwards and the broader issues - although suprisingly little of the witness statements / evidence pack actually got discussed/ mentioned.

The judge seemed annoyed when I called it POFA - and said "lets call it by it full name please".

The judge then gave me an opportunity to comment on the bylaws - but as driver already known, that bit was irrelevant to outcome of case, and he said there was no specific mention of parking in the Byelaws so that was irrelevant also.

We did not speak about POC, or landowner authority, or specifically any case law by name. It was as if either the judge has already accepted or excluded those things in his head - and only focused on the bits that were actively disputed.... which was the signage. So most of what we talked about was about the signage.

The claimants site map showed crosses where there signs were meant to be - and I had photos confirming at least two of the ones near where we parked DID NOT EXIST at all, so was wrong.

Plus there were at least three other discrepencies between the photos I took (6months after) and the ones provided in the claimant evidence pack. Several signs had been changed/replaced.

The photos and the witness statements proving no £100 contract had been seen let alone entered in to were the main things that won it.

The judge concluded that beyond the "tarif board" the claimant had failed to prove the signs even "existed" when we parked there.

We took the baby - but my mother in law sat outside in the court waiting room with baby.

After being there nearly an hour we had not gotten to my mother-in-laws evidence - and we were going to be late for other child pick up. The judge asked if we wanted to bring her in.

I asked the judge if her testomony would be likely to any practical different to the outcome - he said no, so my wife said don't bother then.

skuther

It was the expenses that upset me a bit.

1. My wife said "i'm on maternity leave so haven't lost any income" - so that was zero for her.

2. I said (and had proof) I have lost well over the £95 - but the judge said that he only award half day amounts usually, so I got just under £50.

3. My mother in law had driven over 100 miles to attend (208mile round trip), but because she didn't give evidence in person (as was providing child car in the court waiting room, and the judge as above that her testimony would not make any realistic different to the outcome) - she got nothing.

4. Travel expenses of just under £10 fo me any my wife.

I asked to make a case for unreasonable behaviour - and the judgely allowed me to try, but unsuprisingly I did not suceed in this.

So all of that and £60 total expenses award.

That left me deflated and us all significantly out of pocket.

Umkomaas

Thanks for excellent report, great result and well done to your wife for braving the ordeal .... and coming out on the winning side. 👍

ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST!

Coupon-mad

Well done! I know what you mean about lack of costs for duped defendants dragged to court and their lives disrupted by a scammer.

Your wife could have claimed £50 too you know.  The CPRs say 'loss of salary or loss of leave'. But you have to point that out to most judges.

But hey - it was a win!

ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST!

  

Gr1pr

A few points on the case 

Clients rarely turn up , standard practice 

The legal company rarely turn up,  standard practice 

A jobbing advocate usually turns up on behalf of the actual claimant,  but not always,  but it's very common practice 

The judge will have read the paperwork,  which cuts down on the time in court and often they have decided on the issues,  subject to what might be said in the hearing,  or the questioning etc

The defendant probably would have lost If she hadnt attended,  possibly costing her more money if deemed unreasonable behaviour,

The Elms rep may have talked the judge into awarding their clients the money,  including their £200 expenses on top, nevermind the claim itself, so a slight win costing them money instead of a possible loss costing the defendant hundreds of pounds,  circa £220 to a slightly possible £500 if the advocate could manage it 

I dont think that the extra unused witness was required for the case

Going forward,  a win is a win

In future,  both of you need to understand the responsibilities of keeper and driver,  that the RK can be taken to court, plus what you both would do differently if another pcn arrives,  even if she decided to name the driver if its not her

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, please learn from it, because you both dodged an expensive bullet,  despite what you currently think

Well done 

skuther

Thanks all.

I certainly learned alot.

1. Also we didn't know about POPLA at the time, only finding out 6months too late. The POPLA letter seems to have been "lost in the post" and is conveniently never mentioned as an option on any other letters that were sent to us - so I know to push for that if happens with BPA member in the future.
2. It just so happens (for unrelated reasons) both of our family cars are now registered in my name as keeper - which is why I was able to bat off the more recent "no stopping" at Leeds Bradford Airport VCS one (see other post) - as was keeper but not driver.

3. Seems to be common thread that decent well meaning people take this things very personally and get "overwhelmed".

Very much an emotional rollcoaster. Reading all the other threads and hearing about unfair case after case after case is often more emotionally charged than your own case.

My advice to any newbies is:

a) it is not personal, don't waste your time or energy getting upset by it (although hard to do in practice).

b) Read the Newbies thread.

c) if you are still stuck - you probably did not finish reading the Newbies thread properly - so re-read it.

d) if you are still stuck - you are probably are a bit overwhelmed emotionally and need to re-read the newbies with a friend or family member who is not emotionally involved.

e) Defence is spelt with a C not an S.

f) Don't repost the entire template defence on your post (I don't think I did) but seems to happen alot - as it irritates the regulars who have probably read it thousands or times (...or wrote it, Thanks Coupon-Mad).