NHS Debt - Unsure

metal675

Hello,

I need some advise please regarding issues with debt which NHS says I owe them. I understand this could be a polarising topic, so please read the below info.

To give some background -

I am a British national who has been a law abiding citizen and have paid taxes and contributed to society all my life. Recently my family visited me from abroad and they are not British citizens.

One of the family member was taken to A&E and subsequently the doctors asked them to be admitted. They were shifted to a ward from A&E where they stayed for 2 nights for monitoring and treatment and were then discharged.

During both the admission and discharge, I asked if I needed to pay and if there is any bill for their stay. The reception staff during admission time and the medical staff during discharge said they do not know anything. I was not given any invoice and no one had any clue.

My family had travel insurance from their home country which covers for cost of hospitalization and treatment. However the policy requires that claim needs to be made within 30 days of incident or hospital admission.

Here the problem begins, I receive a letter from NHS trust after 6 weeks asking to provide the details of the patient and if they are eligible for a free treatment. I admit, I ignored this letter. There was no mention of costs or any bill or invoice in this letter - simply asking to provide eligibility for treatment.

Seven months later, I get a letter from NHS Shared Services (seems like outsourced to Serco), where they are demanding I pay £4000 for the two nights stay. The letter is addressed to the family member who is now abroad.

• - There is no breakdown of how the number has been calculated and no itemised bill
• - The letter says that it is a final reminder and they sent reminders before. I NEVER received anything before and I never miss any letters
• - It says if it is not paid, Home Office will be informed which bars them from any future entry and will affect credit rating
• - This was followed by a phone call few days later reiterating the above points.

I have absolutely no issues in paying the bill had I received it upon discharge as is usually the case with hospital admissions all over the world.
My only issue is that if this was given on time to me, we would have got it claimed through insurance. The first time I receive a bill is seven months later. The other issues being what seems like an exorbitant and absurd number which seems expensive than a private stay. Now we being asked to pay £4000 from our own pocket seven months later.

Can someone please advise what are my options here and what I should do as next step? Or where can I seek further advise? The insurance company is saying they cannot pay as it is out of time.

I have not yet contacted NHS Shared Services as I wanted genuine advise first.

While I passionately support NHS and did a lot for them during Covid, but this seems like services like Serco who are threatening abroad patients with a UK visit ban if the number they quote is not paid.

Thank you and sincerely looking for assistance.

Southend_2

You were not the patient and it's not your bill so you don't need to pay. Pass the letter on to the relevant family member to deal with and forget about it. 

Flugelhorn

does seem a long time for them to contact you - TBH the staff on reception and the ward won't know anything about who is eligible for free treatment and who has to pay - that is usually sorted out by the general office, they certainly used to visit people who were inpatients to discuss this but not sure what happens these days 

LinLui

They should have contacted their insurers at the time. That's normal,  whether you've been given a bill or not. 

As said,  you don't have to pay.  They won't be visiting again. If they do and their bar isn't picked up,  they won't be insured. If something goes wrong they'll be screwed.

I'm not sure why anyone actually thinks that another country will just pay travellers medical bills. That's the reason we are all told to ensure we are insured when travelling. And you had an opportunity to sort this out at 6 weeks - you ignored the letter. Whatever your claim is about the bill,  you knew about it - you chose to ignore the letter. So several months down the line,  you are as culpable as you say the NHS is. 

Aylesbury_Duck

metal675 said:

Hello,

I need some advise please regarding issues with debt which NHS says I owe them. I understand this could be a polarising topic, so please read the below info.

To give some background -

I am a British national who has been a law abiding citizen and have paid taxes and contributed to society all my life. Recently my family visited me from abroad and they are not British citizens.

One of the family member was taken to A&E and subsequently the doctors asked them to be admitted. They were shifted to a ward from A&E where they stayed for 2 nights for monitoring and treatment and were then discharged.

During both the admission and discharge, I asked if I needed to pay and if there is any bill for their stay. The reception staff during admission time and the medical staff during discharge said they do not know anything. I was not given any invoice and no one had any clue.

My family had travel insurance from their home country which covers for cost of hospitalization and treatment. However the policy requires that claim needs to be made within 30 days of incident or hospital admission.

Here the problem begins, I receive a letter from NHS trust after 6 weeks asking to provide the details of the patient and if they are eligible for a free treatment. I admit, I ignored this letter. There was no mention of costs or any bill or invoice in this letter - simply asking to provide eligibility for treatment.

Seven months later, I get a letter from NHS Shared Services (seems like outsourced to Serco), where they are demanding I pay £4000 for the two nights stay. The letter is addressed to the family member who is now abroad.

• - There is no breakdown of how the number has been calculated and no itemised bill
• - The letter says that it is a final reminder and they sent reminders before. I NEVER received anything before and I never miss any letters
• - It says if it is not paid, Home Office will be informed which bars them from any future entry and will affect credit rating
• - This was followed by a phone call few days later reiterating the above points.

I have absolutely no issues in paying the bill had I received it upon discharge as is usually the case with hospital admissions all over the world.
My only issue is that if this was given on time to me, we would have got it claimed through insurance. The first time I receive a bill is seven months later. The other issues being what seems like an exorbitant and absurd number which seems expensive than a private stay. Now we being asked to pay £4000 from our own pocket seven months later.

Can someone please advise what are my options here and what I should do as next step? Or where can I seek further advise? The insurance company is saying they cannot pay as it is out of time.

I have not yet contacted NHS Shared Services as I wanted genuine advise first.

While I passionately support NHS and did a lot for them during Covid, but this seems like services like Serco who are threatening abroad patients with a UK visit ban if the number they quote is not paid.

Thank you and sincerely looking for assistance.

Can you be clearer on these points?  Who were the letters addressed to and who are they demanding payment from?

I can't see that you are responsible for paying or that they can enforce payment, but if your relatives don't pay, they'll probably hit problems if they come back to the UK and need treatment.  I'm afraid I don't have huge sympathy here, because this could have been sorted sooner, and you relatives should have contacted their insurer as soon as it was apparent they needed treatment.  I suspect it was a condition of their insurance to do so.

Okell

metal675 said:

... During both the admission and discharge, I asked if I needed to pay and if there is any bill for their stay. The reception staff during admission time and the medical staff during discharge said they do not know anything. I was not given any invoice and no one had any clue...

I speak as a former NHS manager.

As others have said, the NHS reception staff and medical staff are neither managers nor accountants.  There is no reason to expect them to know if you would have anything to pay.  And why would you have anything to do with this in any case?  Your relative is the patient, not you, and any debt is their's, not yours.

metal675 said:

... My family had travel insurance from their home country which covers for cost of hospitalization and treatment. However the policy requires that claim needs to be made within 30 days of incident or hospital admission...

...The insurance company is saying they cannot pay as it is out of time...

Well why didn't your relative inform their travel insurance company at the time (or within 30 days) that they had required - or had received - medical treatment under the NHS?  Did they think they would get it for free?

This is your relative's problem because they didn't make an insurance claim at the appropriate time.  It isn't the NHS's problem.

metal675 said:

... Here the problem begins, I receive a letter from NHS trust after 6 weeks asking to provide the details of the patient and if they are eligible for a free treatment. I admit, I ignored this letter. There was no mention of costs or any bill or invoice in this letter - simply asking to provide eligibility for treatment.

Seven months later, I get a letter from NHS Shared Services (seems like outsourced to Serco), where they are demanding I pay £4000 for the two nights stay. The letter is addressed to the family member who is now abroad...

This makes no sense at all.  On the one hand you say the letter is addressed to your relative, yet you claim that the NHS is demanding that you pay.  Why would the NHS be chasing you for payment when the patient was your relative?It cannot be true that the letter is addressed to your relative but you are being asked to pay.  So what is the actual story?

metal675 said:

...I have absolutely no issues in paying the bill had I received it upon discharge as is usually the case with hospital admissions all over the world...

No other country has an NHS funded solely by the taxpayer.  In most other countries you'd be admitted to a private hospital run as a business.  The NHS is a social good, not a business, so it's irrelevant what happens in other countries.  In any case, you don't need to pay the bill as it's your relative's responsibility.  If they can't afford it I'm sure your payment would be acceptable to the NHS accountants.

metal675 said:

... My only issue is that if this was given on time to me, we would have got it claimed through insurance. The first time I receive a bill is seven months later...

Your relative should have informed their insurer at the time that they'd been hospitalised and not waited for a bill.  Did they - and you - honestly think there would be no charge?  Surely you must know that forerign nationals are only entitled to free NHS treatment in certain well-defined circumstances?  You need to acquaint yourself with the rules in caae they visit you again.

metal675 said:

...but this seems like services like Serco who are threatening abroad patients with a UK visit ban if the number they quote is not paid.

And rightly so.  Why should non-UK nationals who have not contributed to the funding of the NHS expect any free entitlement at all?  The NHS is under enough pressure from ever-increasing demand as it is.  Your relatives should pay their way if they need to make use of the NHS.  (Especially true if they have travel insurance.  Sounds to me like they were trying to get something for nothing...)

I have zero sympathy for them - and so should you if they don't pay up.


[Edit:  of course if your relatives are abroad there is no liklihood that the NHS will sue them or - if they do - that any judgment would be enforceable.  Of course your relative remains morally responsible for paying the bill]
 

PHK

I’m afraid OP, there are a number of errors on you and your families side that have caused this situation. 

Your relative should have told their insurer about their illness and hospitalisation at the time. The insurer is used to this situation because it does it all the time. The would have either have contacted the NHS or advised your relative what to do. 

The second error was ignoring that letter from the NHS. It should have been immediately forwarded to your relative who could approached their insurer explaining the reason for the delay. 

You should have contacted the NHS setting out that the relative was no longer at your address, was not in the country and could be contacted at ….

As it stands you need to contact the NHS, explain the situation in a way which is non critical of the NHS (because the mistakes were yours). Hopefully, they’ll accept your word. 

metal675

Thanks for the responses so far - there are a number of assumptions and judgements made here let me clarify

- they did inform the insurance of treatment before admission. they were told by insurance that is fine, pay any bills yourself and claim back within 30 days as per our policy by sending the invoices and payment proof for your claim to be valid.

- as they live abroad, I gave my contact number for them and my address when they were having treatment as they stayed over at mine. that is why I am being contacted.

- they would travel to the UK in future many times to visit us and this would impact their ability to enter the UK

As I have said, the reason they had insurance was for such scenarios and they are not here to claim free treatment on NHS unlike some who do. But with NHS having delayed an invoice by 7 months, they are faced with this situation. they are fairly old in their 70s and do not necessarily understand these things or if I ask NHS to deal with them.

We don't say not my problem when it is in the family !

I also wanted to understand if there is a legal recourse here OR anyone with particular experience in dealing with such issues.

Appreciate any respectful and non-judgemental advise.

Thanks for reading

powerful_Rogue

metal675 said:

Thanks for the responses so far - there are a number of assumptions and judgements made here let me clarify

- they did inform the insurance of treatment before admission. they were told by insurance that is fine, pay any bills yourself and claim back within 30 days as per our policy by sending the invoices and payment proof for your claim to be valid.

- as they live abroad, I gave my contact number for them and my address when they were having treatment as they stayed over at mine. that is why I am being contacted.

- they would travel to the UK in future many times to visit us and this would impact their ability to enter the UK

As I have said, the reason they had insurance was for such scenarios and they are not here to claim free treatment on NHS unlike some who do. But with NHS having delayed an invoice by 7 months, they are faced with this situation. they are fairly old in their 70s and do not necessarily understand these things or if I ask NHS to deal with them.

We don't say not my problem when it is in the family !

I also wanted to understand if there is a legal recourse here OR anyone with particular experience in dealing with such issues.

Appreciate any respectful and non-judgemental advise.

Thanks for reading

Legal recourse in what sense?

The statue of limitiations is six years, however wouldn't surprise me if NHS debt is exempt from this like benefit overpayments etc.

If they plan to visit you in the future, then it's worth looking at this document - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/debt-to-the-nhs-border-force-officer-guidance/nhs-debtors-accessible

Debbie9009

OP this is a public forum so you will get people giving their opinions, and I doubt many people are going to say it’s morally ok to try to get out of a valid NHS debt.

No your relatives don’t have any legal recourse to get out of the money they owe for the treatment they received.  They knew they had the treatment, they knew they were not entitled to free treatment and should have either found out how to get the bill within the 30 days, or let their insurance company know they hadn’t received the bill and didn’t know how to get it and asked them to help.

I personally am pleased to hear the NHS debt is taking seriously and that there are consequences to not paying. 

mybestattempt

metal675 said:

Thanks for the responses so far - there are a number of assumptions and judgements made here let me clarify

- they did inform the insurance of treatment before admission. they were told by insurance that is fine, pay any bills yourself and claim back within 30 days as per our policy by sending the invoices and payment proof for your claim to be valid.

- as they live abroad, I gave my contact number for them and my address when they were having treatment as they stayed over at mine. that is why I am being contacted.

- they would travel to the UK in future many times to visit us and this would impact their ability to enter the UK

As I have said, the reason they had insurance was for such scenarios and they are not here to claim free treatment on NHS unlike some who do. But with NHS having delayed an invoice by 7 months, they are faced with this situation. they are fairly old in their 70s and do not necessarily understand these things or if I ask NHS to deal with them.

We don't say not my problem when it is in the family !

I also wanted to understand if there is a legal recourse here OR anyone with particular experience in dealing with such issues.

Appreciate any respectful and non-judgemental advise.

Thanks for reading

Here's a link to a document which you may find helpful:


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-cost-recovery-overseas-visitors