Rogue sibling tries to prove our mother has dementia

The_Walker

Hi all, back again with more tales of woe in this continuing family saga. Some background can be found in the previous thread here -

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6533640/pr-for-probate-goes-rogue/p1

I'm looking for some advice on the latest development i.e. demands for a dementia test.

My sibling has lived in the family home for many years, paying no rent and has only started to pay utilities since our father died last year. My mother now owns the house entirely and her requests for a financial contribution (rent) have been ignored. She has decided enough is enough and wants to sell the house. I have advised her we should only proceed once I gain Last Power of Attorney, which is underway now in accordance with my mothers wishes (I already handle her finances through third party access with the bank).

However, my siblings latest stunt is to demand blood and urine tests and a follow up interview to ascertain whether our mother has dementia. I should emphasise my mother has no symptoms of dementia, and though is slower now with Parkinsons she can clearly make her decisions known and is of sound mind. The LPA company we are paying to set things up have interviewed her and also agree she is of sound mind. My mother is upset at this latest attempt by my sibling to maintain free accomodation and dispute my mothers power to make any decisions. It's truly been a battle so far.

I believe my mother can refuse the request for blood and urine samples, which she says she will do. I'm not sure if she can refuse an interview?

Personally I'm not sure what the best course of action is here? On the one hand I'm sure a dementia test would clarify my mother's ability to think clearly. On the other hand why should we cooperate with yet more nonsense from my sibling? And afterwards what's stopping my sibling putting more obstacles in our path?

No doubt she will also object to the LPA going through when she is informed shortly by letter. And that will cause further delays and probably cost my mother and I more money getting professional advice and assistance. Not to mention we are not getting any younger. The longer this goes on, the more chance there is that my mother could actually lose her clarity of mind (she's 84 with Parkinsons in a nursing home near to me).

Any thoughts?

tooldle

Sorry to hear of your situation. 

From the sibling perspective, they may well have a genuine but misguided concern. After all, having had a free ride for many years, their mum has suddenly changed tack and wants a contribution. Perhaps the sibling doesn’t see their situation as free loading.
wait for the LPA which authorises you to make financial decisions in your mum’s best interest. Mum I’m assuming needs the money to assist with the cost of the nursing home, and to secure a sale to allow mum to stay in her preferred settings would be a responsibility under the LPA (finance and health + welfare).
I wouldn’t react in any way to the demand for tests of any sort. If mum is in a nursing home rather than a care home, there will be registered nurses on site. Both settings would raise a red flag if they felt it necessary. It can’t hurt to ask for a meeting to explain the situation and ask for notes of the discussion to be put on mum’s file.
I’ve been in a similar situation where sibling moved into parent’s home after our father’s death. Mum moved into a care home two weeks later, with her dementia reaching the stage where she could no longer manage without full time support. Sibling stayed on to ‘look after the place’ with a promise to pay the bills. Very quickly I started receiving payment reminders. The property was 200 miles from me. On my next visit it was clear the property was not being locked after and frankly was stinking. As soon as the LPA’s came through (put in progress before dad’s death), I put the property on the market. It took almost a year to get the bill money from sibling. They had no reason not to pay and, were having a high old time spending the monies that would have been spent on rent, on grounds the house in their opinion would take ages to sell. It went under offer for asking at the first viewing and, complete 6 weeks later. 
As your sibling has an income stream, I’d suggest putting your intentions in writing, making it clear it is time to start looking for a new home. Is there any possibility of sibling claiming to be financially dependent upon Mum.
Wishing you luck OP, some of us get stuck with unhelpful / awful relatives.

elsien

Presumption is that someone has capacity unless proven otherwise otherwise. 

Capacity is time and decision specific. 

Someone can have dementia and still have capacity to make a power of attorney and other decisions. 

Blood and urine tests will not prove dementia (or the lack of it.) She can refuse anything she likes. There are many different types of dementia and there is no blood test available in this country at the moment that would provide any sort of definitive diagnosis.  Your sibling is making it up as they go along.

For what it’s worth, there is no obligation to inform anyone else about a power of attorney been put in place. That is up to your mother whether she wishes to do that or not - it is optional. 

If the solicitor you are using to do the power of attorney has assessed capacity in the knowledge that there may be a challenge, that really should be all that is needed. 

Out of interest, who does your sibling say is meant to be carrying out this alleged interview? 

And just in response to Toodle’s comment above, you can only make decisions in someone’s best interest when they have lost capacity around that specific decision. If Mum still has capacity, then all decisions are up to her whether there is a power of attorney in place or not. 

Keep_pedalling

She can refuse all those things, but it seems the main issue is that he continues to live with her. If she is planning to sell then she should be looking to kick him out now.

She also does not need to wait until the LPA comes through, she can make a general POA to deal with the house sale. This does not need to go through the COP. 

https://www.hsbc.co.uk/content/dam/hsbc/gb/pdf/life-events/ordinary-power-of-attorney-explained.pdf

elsien

Keep_pedalling said:

She can refuse all those things, but it seems the main issue is that he continues to live with her. If she is planning to sell then she should be looking to kick him out now.

She also does not need to wait until the LPA comes through, she can make a general POA to deal with the house sale. This does not need to go through the COP. 

https://www.hsbc.co.uk/content/dam/hsbc/gb/pdf/life-events/ordinary-power-of-attorney-explained.pdf

He lives in her house. She no longer lives there – she is in a nursing home.
The issue she is likely to have in selling the house is whether they try and make themselves such a nuisance that no one buys it, or they try to claim financial dependence. 

tacpot12

If they interfer with the sale, your PoA would allow you exclude them from the home by changing the locks. 

tooldle

As I understand it, financial decisions can be made using an LPA whilst the donor still has capacity. Health and Welfare cannot be used until capacity is lost. 

LinLui

You obviously don't like your sibling very much,  which may be fair enough. But something you said in your previous thread suggested that they may have care needs (I.e. be disabled/ vulnerable ) in which case he may be a dependent in law. That would complicate matters..

The_Walker

My sibling hasn't stated who will be doing the interviewing or given details to my mother. I just assumed it was all true and she had the power to do this?

When my mother stated she now intended to sell the house (because understably she's had enough of all this) my sibling said "I can contest that".

LinLui, my sibling does not have any disability or vulnerability. I have not said whether I like my sibling or not. This isn't really about me. I try to be dispassionate about these things and simply deal with the issues that arise from them and follow my mothers wishes. I do think it's a shame for my mother in her final years that she is having to face these hurdles. It's rather unfair?

My sibling does not have finanical dependance. Though unemployed currently, 30K has come through from my fathers probate and another 70K soon from the sale of a property. There is no shortage of money.

My sibling has been asked repeatedly to make a contribution while staying in the family home. My late father also requested this. But maybe legally it's for the best my sibling refused? If rent had been paid there could have been tenants rights making things more complex?

I know we could start the sale process immediately in theory. But I would prefer to have the LPA in place encase anything should go wrong. For example, what if my mother really did lose capacity half way through the sale? We'd be in complete limbo.

What worries me is how far this is going to go. It's all very well being able to put the house on the market, but how do you physically remove someone who will not leave? It could get ugly. Which would be very sad for the family.

elsien

tooldle said:

As I understand it, financial decisions can be made using an LPA whilst the donor still has capacity. Health and Welfare cannot be used until capacity is lost. 

With consent  if the LPA is to set up to allow that, and in line with their wishes however unwise you consider that decision to be. Not in their best interests at that point because all you are doing is facilitating their decision, not making it for them. 

elsien

The_Walker said:

My sibling hasn't stated who will be doing the interviewing or given details to my mother. I just assumed it was all true and she had the power to do this?

When my mother stated she now intended to sell the house (because understably she's had enough of all this) my sibling said "I can contest that".

LinLui, my sibling does not have any disability or vulnerability. I have not said whether I like my sibling or not. This isn't really about me. I try to be dispassionate about these things and simply deal with the issues that arise from them and follow my mothers wishes. I do think it's a shame for my mother in her final years that she is having to face these hurdles. It's rather unfair?

My sibling does not have finanical dependance. Though unemployed currently, 30K has come through from my fathers probate and another 70K soon from the sale of a property. There is no shortage of money.

My sibling has been asked repeatedly to make a contribution while staying in the family home. My late father also requested this. But maybe legally it's for the best my sibling refused? If rent had been paid there could have been tenants rights making things more complex?

I know we could start the sale process immediately in theory. But I would prefer to have the LPA in place encase anything should go wrong. For example, what if my mother really did lose capacity half way through the sale? We'd be in complete limbo.

What worries me is how far this is going to go. It's all very well being able to put the house on the market, but how do you physically remove someone who will not leave? It could get ugly. Which would be very sad for the family.

Absolutely  not. It's no different to trying to insist that you or any other capacitous adult have physical health tests and interviews and then sharing that confidential information with someone against your wishes. 
Just ask sibling on what legal basis they think they have the right to implement this - they won't be able to tell you because there isn't one.