Raspberry Pi 4 fan?

MouldyOldDough

I have a Raspberry Pi 4 that I haven't used for some time - mainly due to the fan noise

Do I need to run a fan - when the Pi is only doing basic tasks  ?

What will happen if the device overheats ?

Will it permanently damage it - or just cut out temporarily and restart ?

MattMattMattUK

MouldyOldDough said:

I have a Raspberry Pi 4 that I haven't used for some time - mainly due to the fan noise

Do I need to run a fan - when the Pi is only doing basic tasks  ?

What will happen if the device overheats ?

Will it permanently damage it - or just cut out temporarily and restart ?

What makes you think you need a fan? The boards can run bare without overheating at full load, even a passive heat sink is overkill, let alone a fan. 

If it did overheat, and it is very very unlikely to, then it would first throttle and eventually crash, but the chip would need to get to around 80c to throttle and 100c to start glitching. Almost impossible to go any permanent damage as it will just crash or shut down long before damage occurs. 

Edit: below is a link to a good detailed article if you are interested. 
https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/thermal-testing-raspberry-pi-4/

MouldyOldDough

MattMattMattUK said:

MouldyOldDough said:

I have a Raspberry Pi 4 that I haven't used for some time - mainly due to the fan noise

Do I need to run a fan - when the Pi is only doing basic tasks  ?

What will happen if the device overheats ?

Will it permanently damage it - or just cut out temporarily and restart ?

What makes you think you need a fan? The boards can run bare without overheating at full load, even a passive heat sink is overkill, let alone a fan. 

If it did overheat, and it is very very unlikely to, then it would first throttle and eventually crash, but the chip would need to get to around 80c to throttle and 100c to start glitching. Almost impossible to go any permanent damage as it will just crash or shut down long before damage occurs. 

Edit: below is a link to a good detailed article if you are interested. 
https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/thermal-testing-raspberry-pi-4/

Thanks - when I bought it - it came as a full kit, with case, fan etc etc

i just automatically assumed that the fan was necessary

but the noise it makes put me off running it for years

I will give it a go without the fan

plus the firmware update is a power saver too

Neil_Jones

my Pi 4 which is used as a file server has never seen a fan.  it has only ever run passively.

I don't think I even put anything on the chip when I bought it, and its been running happily since October 2020...

MattMattMattUK

MouldyOldDough said:

MattMattMattUK said:

MouldyOldDough said:

I have a Raspberry Pi 4 that I haven't used for some time - mainly due to the fan noise

Do I need to run a fan - when the Pi is only doing basic tasks  ?

What will happen if the device overheats ?

Will it permanently damage it - or just cut out temporarily and restart ?

What makes you think you need a fan? The boards can run bare without overheating at full load, even a passive heat sink is overkill, let alone a fan. 

If it did overheat, and it is very very unlikely to, then it would first throttle and eventually crash, but the chip would need to get to around 80c to throttle and 100c to start glitching. Almost impossible to go any permanent damage as it will just crash or shut down long before damage occurs. 

Edit: below is a link to a good detailed article if you are interested. 
https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/thermal-testing-raspberry-pi-4/

Thanks - when I bought it - it came as a full kit, with case, fan etc etc

i just automatically assumed that the fan was necessary

but the noise it makes put me off running it for years

I will give it a go without the fan

plus the firmware update is a power saver too

Those little fans can have an annoying noise frequency, normal PC fans are 120mm or 140mm and even then the 140mm is noticeably quieter at the same RPM and a nicer sound as well (plus greater airflow). I think quite a few of those Pi kits shipped with 40mm fans and they have an awful sound profile. It would be worth checking if the fan is addressable, or if it has a switch for different RPMs, you could drop it all the way down to it's lowest level and probably get rid of most/all of the noise if you want to keep it running, or you could just disconnect it. 

You can poll the chip for temps if you want to keep an eye on it. 

measure_temp

Returns the temperature of the SoC as measured by its internal temperature sensor. On Raspberry Pi 4, measure_temp pmic returns the temperature of the PMIC.

https://www.raspberrypi.com/documentation/computers/os.html#vcgencmd

MouldyOldDough

Neil_Jones said:

my Pi 4 which is used as a file server has never seen a fan.  it has only ever run passively.

I don't think I even put anything on the chip when I bought it, and its been running happily since October 2020...

It seems that a Pi 5 DOES need active cooling and is twice the speed of a Pi 4 - which in itself is extremely quick - so I may upgrade anyway.....

How much power does it consume ?

I originally planned to run mine from a USB power bank

Neil_Jones

The Pi4 requires 5w at 3amp power, which is what the official chargers can provide, though whether a power bank will do what you want depends on what you're doing to do with the Pi.  If you run USB devices, screens and other peripherals it'll use more power so the bank won't last as long.  A power bank with a capacity of 50000mAh is enough to keep your Raspberry Pi running for a really long time. Depending on the usage case, it may run for up to 30 hours before needing to recharge

https://www.powerbankexpert.com/best-raspberry-pi-power-bank/ might be of more interest in this matter

As to the question, depends on what you're doing. At full load running 24/7 and current electricity costs it shouldn't cost any more than £15 a year at the most to run, and for the most part it shouldn't use any more than 50kWh a year, so its practically nothing.  Your desktop fans you run in hot weather use more than the Pi does a day.

MouldyOldDough

I need a new SD card for my Pi the old 128Gb Sandisk "extreme pro" has given up the ghost - I don't believe that it was genuine anyway !

Which is the best brand to buy ?

Lexar appears OK - But which model ?

Amazon has 100's

Neil_Jones

You don't need 128Gb, a 16Gb will be more than enough.  The base system only needs 8Gb, though a 32Gb may be the ideal balance.

I've had my SD card in my Pi since 2020, and I think its a Sandisk 16Gb.

You can bodge your Pi to run off USB, though you'll need a working Pi from SD in the first place

https://pimylifeup.com/raspberry-pi-boot-from-usb/

(Micro)SD cards are cheap for a reason.

MouldyOldDough

OK The old micro SD card is possibly recoverable

I tried to reinstall Ubuntu on it - it failed at around 90% complete

Is there any SAFE software that I can run to check the SD card ?

I tried H2testW but it told me that the card needed formatting first and the card wouldn't format !

Neil_Jones

MouldyOldDough said:

OK The old micro SD card is possibly recoverable

I tried to reinstall Ubuntu on it - it failed at around 90% complete

Is there any SAFE software that I can run to check the SD card ?

I tried H2testW but it told me that the card needed formatting first and the card wouldn't format !

For the amount of faffing around and the return on said effort,it's going to be far quicker just to get a new card.  32Gb Sandisk on Amazon at this time less than a tenner.

Those symptoms are of a dying card.

Like I say (micro) SD cards are cheap for a reason, and that reason is... they aren't intended to last.  In theory they should last 10 years.  In practice and with heavy usage they'll be mostly dead in three.  Any important information you have should never only exist on an SD card because there are so many variables that can dramatically shorten how long it remains readable.