Vet demanding money but witholding billing information

bellalu

I'm not sure where to go with this. I have several bills outstanding with my (now previous) veterinary practice. They have sent me confusing and conflicting billing information over recent months, made errors and overcharged me, to which they had admitted. A claim was submitted to the insurance company and they gave me one itemised bill for a big operation my dog had to have. This was where I spotted errors and they had merged two separate claims together. That had to then be resubmitted to my insurance company. 

I have always paid my excess and copayments upfront at the time of treatment but they have said there are other amounts owing. These amounts have changed at different times, with no clear explanation as to why. 

I had paid £500 at an out of hours visit in May, which I was told I would be reimbursed for. They later said not only was i not getting that back as it had been used to pay "other outstanding charges on my account", but that I now owed an additional £300+ but didn't specify what for. That amount has since changed to £200+ but still no itemised breakdown. In all they are saying I owe £5000+ but since I found the errors on one bill, have ignored my requests for itemisation. 

I was offered a payment plan of 6 months for the big op (that came to more than 6k. I paid £2k upfront and the insurance cover £2k, but the fees have still not been properly clarified since the errors and they have not confirmed my new monthly payment amount or what exactly they are now specifically charging for and I'm concerned they are still over charging and covering it up.

The last correspondence from them via email was some (again different) total outstanding figures of what I owe with a vague note "this can be for copayments, insurance shortfalls etc". However they ended the email by saying if I did not make any of the payments owed they would pass it to debt collectors.

I asked them to clarify the costs again and they have not responded. I know that their accounts manager left and they are still without one, I feel that they do not even know what the costs are even for. Other reviews online are saying similar. I contacted vet mediation services as per their complaints procedure and the practice has declined to participate.

I spoke to CAB and they didn't really help, they just said I can find quotes from other vets and challenge their fees if I think they're too high. They don't listen to the full issue unfortunately I have tried them twice.

I am not disputing that there is a debt, I just want to know what I have paid for and what I am still meant to be paying - and exactly what for. I also don't know whether to tell my insurance company to pay out as I still don't know if the claim they resubmitted is now accurate. I think there are still discrepancies. I am against the clock and no one will help me.

It's a long post I know, it's been a lot of unnecessary work for me just to understand my final bill. I am very ill, they know this. I have a serious health condition and I find this kind of thing difficult at the best of times but I feel they are just letting me stew and work hard for answers. It's making me so much worse to the point I'm not sure how much more I will be able to continue with. 

I have tried CAB, VCMS, RCVS so far. My question is, would they be likely to take this to a small claims court and what can I do? I'm certainly not well enough to attend court. I have so far made a goodwill payment of £300 until I'm clear on what I am paying, but I don't know where to go from here. I could make monthly payments if I knew what they were and if they were correct.  I would like to put all this behind me so I can focus on recovering from the recent stress of all this. 

Thank you if you have managed to read all this.

elsien

They  can pass it on to whoever they like, debt collectors have no power at all to do anything other  than to write you intimidating letters with vague mentions of court. You can insist they only contact you in writing if they start to harass you on the phone.

In order to progress this the vet would need to take you to small claims court where they would have to properly evidence what you owed and why, and you would have the opportunity to dispute this. Obviously you don’t want it to go this far, and no one can tell you how likely they are to do this,  so the plan would be to get some sense out of them before that. I only mention it so that you understand the debt collectors letters are nothing to worry about until and unless you get a proper court summons.  

I would suggest writing to them, setting out what you have paid and when, clearly stating you are happy to come up with a payment plan for the correct amount due once you are sure on what you are paying given the errors that have been made so far. You may wish to reference some of those errors. 

On that basis, you are requesting a fully itemised bill going back to x date, so it is clear to everyone including yourself that the final bill is correct. 

You might also want to point out that it’s in everyone’s interest to resolve this without the expense of going to court and as soon as they’ve sorted out their billing properly, you will set up a payment plan immediately. 

But do everything in writing/email from here on in so you have a proper record of what’s being said. 

Undervalued

bellalu said:

I'm not sure where to go with this. I have several bills outstanding with my (now previous) veterinary practice. They have sent me confusing and conflicting billing information over recent months, made errors and overcharged me, to which they had admitted. A claim was submitted to the insurance company and they gave me one itemised bill for a big operation my dog had to have. This was where I spotted errors and they had merged two separate claims together. That had to then be resubmitted to my insurance company. 

I have always paid my excess and copayments upfront at the time of treatment but they have said there are other amounts owing. These amounts have changed at different times, with no clear explanation as to why. 

I had paid £500 at an out of hours visit in May, which I was told I would be reimbursed for. They later said not only was i not getting that back as it had been used to pay "other outstanding charges on my account", but that I now owed an additional £300+ but didn't specify what for. That amount has since changed to £200+ but still no itemised breakdown. In all they are saying I owe £5000+ but since I found the errors on one bill, have ignored my requests for itemisation. 

I was offered a payment plan of 6 months for the big op (that came to more than 6k. I paid £2k upfront and the insurance cover £2k, but the fees have still not been properly clarified since the errors and they have not confirmed my new monthly payment amount or what exactly they are now specifically charging for and I'm concerned they are still over charging and covering it up.

The last correspondence from them via email was some (again different) total outstanding figures of what I owe with a vague note "this can be for copayments, insurance shortfalls etc". However they ended the email by saying if I did not make any of the payments owed they would pass it to debt collectors.

I asked them to clarify the costs again and they have not responded. I know that their accounts manager left and they are still without one, I feel that they do not even know what the costs are even for. Other reviews online are saying similar. I contacted vet mediation services as per their complaints procedure and the practice has declined to participate.

I spoke to CAB and they didn't really help, they just said I can find quotes from other vets and challenge their fees if I think they're too high. They don't listen to the full issue unfortunately I have tried them twice.

I am not disputing that there is a debt, I just want to know what I have paid for and what I am still meant to be paying - and exactly what for. I also don't know whether to tell my insurance company to pay out as I still don't know if the claim they resubmitted is now accurate. I think there are still discrepancies. I am against the clock and no one will help me.

It's a long post I know, it's been a lot of unnecessary work for me just to understand my final bill. I am very ill, they know this. I have a serious health condition and I find this kind of thing difficult at the best of times but I feel they are just letting me stew and work hard for answers. It's making me so much worse to the point I'm not sure how much more I will be able to continue with. 

I have tried CAB, VCMS, RCVS so far. My question is, would they be likely to take this to a small claims court and what can I do? I'm certainly not well enough to attend court. I have so far made a goodwill payment of £300 until I'm clear on what I am paying, but I don't know where to go from here. I could make monthly payments if I knew what they were and if they were correct.  I would like to put all this behind me so I can focus on recovering from the recent stress of all this. 

Thank you if you have managed to read all this.

Obviously you are entitled to an accurate bill for the work / treatment done.

However you accept that you do owe them some (significant?) money, which at the moment you are unlikely to be able to pay in full. I assume the £300 you have paid as "goodwill" doesn't get close to the likely total?

I am not clear about the full figures but if, say, somewhere around £2000 is owing, but the amounts in dispute might only swing this a couple of hundred either way, then just paying £300 out of a minimum debt of maybe £1800 (say) is unlikely to be acceptable. It probably gives them the impression that you are making disputes as a means of delaying or avoiding payment.

However, if you don't have the money you can't pay! If they, or their debt collectors, do go to court there will be some additional costs added. If they win the court will assess what you can reasonably afford and instruct you pay at that rate until it is cleared.

If you are able, I would suggest you offer to pay a far more significant amount ASAP then try to accurately resolve the how much remains.

saajan_12

DONT WORRY - Debt collectors (pre court) can be ignored. At small claims court, you'd get the full list of what is owed as they'd have to prove it to the court. The only (small) downside is the court cost, but its you have a good argument against this as you're trying to resolve it, not running away. If / when they do file a court claim, lots of it is done on papers or by phone anyway, eg filing a written response and then mediation. If it does progress to a hearing, then its a room with a table and a handful of people, not a formal affair. You may be able to ask for dates etc to be adjusted if medically needed.  

TO DO - I'd write to them asking for a clear itemised bill as you are unsure where the amounts are coming from and there have been errors so far. State that you would be happy to pay once a correct itemised bill is produced and checked. Explain that you've paid xyz in good faith to demonstrate this, so escalating recovery costs would be inappropriate and you are awaiting an action by them (ie producing the breakdown).  
That should either get you the breakdown or the defense against their escalation. 

sheramber

Write to them and state that you are anxious  to bring this matter to a close but to do so you require  a nitemised  invoice showing

 1  What each  treatment cost is for and the relevant date

2   What has been paid and when

3   What is still outstanding.-  Random excess/costs  etc is not sufficient, exact  details are required.

When these details are provided you will be able to check these with your own records and establish the correct amount due.


Keep a copy of your letter or email.

Don't  include any other comments etc.

Just state clearly what you require.


Should you receive any debt collector letters contact them to advise that the matter is under dispute.

Debt collectors can make noise/ threats  but they cannot take you to court nor take any action against you.

They have no authority to enter your house etc.  


Do you have legal cover on your house insurance? If so, they may be  able you some advice.

bellalu

sheramber said:

Write to them and state that you are anxious  to bring this matter to a close but to do so you require  a nitemised  invoice showing

 1  What each  treatment cost is for and the relevant date

2   What has been paid and when

3   What is still outstanding.-  Random excess/costs  etc is not sufficient, exact  details are required.

When these details are provided you will be able to check these with your own records and establish the correct amount due.


Keep a copy of your letter or email.

Don't  include any other comments etc.

Just state clearly what you require.


Should you receive any debt collector letters contact them to advise that the matter is under dispute.

Debt collectors can make noise/ threats  but they cannot take you to court nor take any action against you.

They have no authority to enter your house etc.  


Do you have legal cover on your house insurance? If so, they may be  able you some advice.

Unfortunately I don’t have legal cover. I have had the same cover for years and recently checked. It would have been a good idea.. hindsight! 

Thanks I will put this suggestion to head office. It’s also been suggested I submit an SAR for the information as I believe they are legally required to respond to that.