Claims Management Companies intercepting Calls to Insurer

BossHogg

Like others have reported on here, seems my daughter has been a victim of these car insurance 'claims management' scams...

After being hit from behind when stationary at roundabout, and other driver accepting blame, we googled number for Hastings (her insurer)... called the resulting 0800 number from the scene, and gave policy number... they asked about the crash, then said they were transferring call to claims dep... a claims management company then came on and gave us a 'password' to ensure nobody else dealt with claim, and explained that her insurer had passed the claim on to them as it was a cut & dried case and need not be a claim from her insurance. All subtle lies.

Car was recovered (eventually... 5hrs wait)... then assessed and written off as uneconomic to repair. Full market value being offered. 

Dug out original purchase paperwork to find she has GAP insurance, but they asked why with it being only 10mth old car, is it not a new for old claim. We needed to contact Hastings to find out.

Of course that is when it all unravelled, Hastings had no record of call or claim, and explained they have had a lot of this... with Google offering up fake numbers. They could take over the claim, but only if we get the CMC to give permission, and we settle any of their costs to date.

Looks like this puts it outside of the T&C of the GAP insurance, so she will only get market value instead of original retail cost (£3k+ difference). There should be some law against this sort of thing... it is surely getting money under false pretences so fraud?

I would imagine that this is also the sort of thing adding to insurance costs, as they add on ridiculous costs for recovery/storage/hire-cars etc.

tacpot12

It is fraud if they have provided a number on a website that purports to be for Hastings, but is not. 

Does your daughter live at home with you or does she own her own home? 

BossHogg

She lives at home with us... i note that re-running a search now for "Hastings direct claim" still comes up with "car-insurance-services" and page title as "Hastings Insurance Claim - Motor Claim?" but seems to go to a dead page now, so maybe already closed down (until they phoenix as another link).

Obviously we should have read more on the link or resulting page, but after stress of crash it gets you at your most vulnerable. Link text has "Need To Make A Hastings Insurance Claim? Use Our Independent Accident Management Services Instead. Immediate Accident Assistance - Roadside Recovery Available. Highlights: On Call 24/7 Roadside Assistance Available, Experts Available On Call" which in light of day is clear that it is not Hastings, but they claimed to be when we called (no evidence of course).

dunstonh

There should be some law against this sort of thing... it is surely getting money under false pretences so fraud?

There are sufficient laws against wrongdoing but not everything is wrongdoing. 

Unfortunately, the internet is a mix of useful information and a cesspool of scams, frauds and fake information.    You really need to take care when using it.

400ixl

Why does it fall outside of the T&C's of the gap insurance? Wouldn't on my policy, I would still have to inform the gap insurer and allow them to do any negotiation with the 3rd party on what they will be paying out and therefore what the gap insurance has to pay.

That would be the same if it was my insurer, direct with the 3rd party insurer or an intermediary.

Agree though that there should be rules in place about these claims companies having to be very explicit about how they are working. They should be making it very clear as to how and if they are working on behalf of the insurer and in what capacity.

Lesson number one, never google for contact details. Look at the officially provided documents for them. You should always have access to your insurance documentation anyway (electronically).

DullGreyGuy

There is no law that stops someone advertising on someone else's brand, if I google "hotpoint oven" then I get presented with Appliances Direct, AO, AEG and then Hotpoint. For many this is helpful to know who sells the item you want and you can compare prices etc. 

If I google "Hastings motor claims telephone" the first result is clearly marked as a sponsored link and is...

Hastings Insurance Claim - Motor Claim? - www.car-insurance-services.co.uk

Need To Make A Hastings Insurance Claim? Use Our Independent Accident Management Services Instead. Immediate Accident Assistance - Roadside Recovery Available.

Taken as an external viewer and not in a high pressure situation you can see its not Hasting's website address, its clearly posed as a question and the text says, to paraphrase, use our service instead. So all the clues are there that it's not Hasting themselves.

Normally if you listen to the call recordings themselves they are very similar, they dont actually pass themselves off as Hastings, which would be an issue. But also dont necessarily go out their way to correct incorrect statements by the caller. Whilst "passing off" can be a broader problem the main thing they do do thats naughty is use trademarks of the other brand but its only the trademark holder that can complain about that. 

Unfortunately people also dont listen too well, especially if calling from the roadside after an accident. At the end of your 3 month probation with BT they sample 10 calls, along with your timekeeping etc, and use that to decide if to take you out of probation, extend the probation or let you go. When I was there many moons ago I was told I'd scored 97% on all 10 calls and on all 10 calls I had lost the 3% because I'd answered the phone "thank you for calling CGNU Gold Service, my name is Dull, how can I help you?", 9 customers didnt respond to the fact I'd said CGNU rather than BT and the 10th customer had only made comment on the fact they were happy to be on the "gold service". 



Ultimately you are on the path you are on, have you actually received a payout for the total loss of the car? If not it may be possible that the TL aspect is dealt with my your insurers rather than third party insurer, you're going to have to make sure the credit hire company are comfortable with this as there could be arguments about delays and likewise there may be a question over the c£100 engineer's fee but if you say the GAP insurance is £3k difference it could be worth negotiating an agreement. 

As to adding to insurance costs? Many insurers are very happy to refer you to credit hire and maybe also credit repairs even if you do call the correct telephone number so the claims management companies alone are not the only ones responsible for pushing up costs. Similar some insurers have set up internal repair management companies which they add a fee onto their outlay when then trying to get a refund from the other insurer. 

The courts also have their role in the costs too, in my day we'd challenge why someone needed a BMW 540 courtesy car and couldn't have lived with a Ford Mondeo 1.8 for the sake of a week or two but the courts predominately decided that mitigation of losses didnt have to go as far as taking a step down in prestige of vehicle even if there was no knock on impact. 

BossHogg

Got the Engineers damage assessment report (Cat S), and vehicle has been moved from expensive recovery storage to "CoPart"... Payment request was sent to 3rd part yesterday, so seems to be moving along OK (could be me being naïve again). 
The GAP are saying that their T&C only allow pay-out if full invoice cost not reclaimable from another source, but as she has Hastings fully comp, it should be... hence they should not need to pay. I've explained situation to them and thrown us upon their mercy. 
Regarding hire costs, they are using reputable 'Enterprise' to supply rather than any old hire company charging fictitious amounts, but she has been given a class C (MG HS) which is way bigger than she wants/needs. In fact compared to her SEAT Ibiza she is frightened to drive it! I was thinking to get her to hand it back... but read elsewhere it may cause CMC to then down tools on her claim. She already emailed their 'solicitor' on day of signing PI claim representation, to say that she wants to cancel... and suspect we may get hit with costs for that.

tacpot12

if she asked to cancel on the same day, that will limit her costs, and she should try to negotiate on any costs that they claim. She should ask to see evidence that they have done the work that they claim to have done. 

DullGreyGuy

BossHogg said:

Got the Engineers damage assessment report (Cat S), and vehicle has been moved from expensive recovery storage to "CoPart"... Payment request was sent to 3rd part yesterday, so seems to be moving along OK (could be me being naïve again). 
The GAP are saying that their T&C only allow pay-out if full invoice cost not reclaimable from another source, but as she has Hastings fully comp, it should be... hence they should not need to pay. I've explained situation to them and thrown us upon their mercy. 
Regarding hire costs, they are using reputable 'Enterprise' to supply rather than any old hire company charging fictitious amounts, but she has been given a class C (MG HS) which is way bigger than she wants/needs. In fact compared to her SEAT Ibiza she is frightened to drive it! I was thinking to get her to hand it back... but read elsewhere it may cause CMC to then down tools on her claim. She already emailed their 'solicitor' on day of signing PI claim representation, to say that she wants to cancel... and suspect we may get hit with costs for that.

It's not really a "request for payment" but a claim with substantiating evidence. In my claims days we'd put the info from the report into our own valuation tool, if it came out within a few pounds we'd pay what the engineer said, if it came out less we'd pay what our tool said and if it came out more we pay the claimed amount. 

What rates will be charged will depend on if the credit provider is Enterprise or the CMC and if they and the insurer are party to the ABI GTA on credit hire or not. If they are then hire is £70.48+VAT a day, if they aren't then the cost will be higher.

Assuming the CMC company is giving the credit for the hire then tools are more or less downed as soon as the engineers report is sent as the longer the hire goes on the more money they are making and "they've done their bit" and can't be blamed if the TP Insurer is slow reviewing the report etc. 

BossHogg

Eventually my Daughter got her pay-out, and substantially back in position she was before the crash with new Ibiza (same model), but the whole thing leaves a sour taste...

• Police not interested at time of crash, no substantial injuries or road blockage... so 3rd party not checked for drink/drugs despite a fairly major driving cockup
• She had bought GAP insurance with car (without realising) - this was a torturous claims process wanting way too much info, and then they deducted things like Warranty (?) and Tax registration fee... so knocked about £1100 in total off what we thought would be ~£3k 'gap' 
• 3rd Party insurer paid my daughter direct (probably only reason we got the money in decent time).
• The CMC took ages to pay out their 'bit' (~3.5k) which presumably was scrap/auction value for Cat S car... but it never went to auction (we were watching CoPart), and is now taxed and presumably back on the road. Someone obviously repaired this 10mth old 6K mileage car... stinks of dodgy.

DullGreyGuy

Police typically see accidents as a civil matter and will only attend if there is violence, significant injury, road blockage, a blue light vehicle was involved or if you explicitly allege a crime (and the last one is 50/50 at best). Worse still is if you report an attempted theft, last time I did they gave the crime number over the phone and said they'd be closing the file that day unless I felt a need for a visit in a few days. 

When dealing with a total loss and CMC its normal practice for the TP Insurer to pay you directly for the total loss, the CMC wouldn't add any value receiving and forwarding the monies and the clock for the handback of the car starts from when payment is received and so would lead to debate on if receipt by the CMC or the claimant themselves is the trigger. 

CoPart ultimately buy damaged vehicles and resell them. Insurers get a certainty of what salvage will be, have vehicles recovered quickly etc etc. CoPart will naturally hope to make a profit. Ultimately when CoPart buy the vehicle its becomes theirs and they are free to do what they want with them (assuming not an A or ; it would seem stranger to me if they auction every single one of them... there has to be more than one pathway and some vehicles that are better dealt with in other ways. The alternative for an insurer is they have to hold vehicles in storage which will have a cost and negotiate the value of each and every piece of salvage... there are some that have different setups but they tend to be ones who insurer non-standard vehicles where there is value in considering what to do with a wrecked hypercar or classic rather than passing them all over for X%