Euro Car Parks / DCB Legal: Letter of Claim

Eritodog

Hi,

Apologies for the new post, I have some specific questions around a letter of claim I have received today from DCB legal. I have read the Newbies thread, but it appears to have changed since I read it over the last few months, when I was only receiving debt collection letters.

Context:
I received 5 PCNs over the course of 3 weeks from EuroCarParks in December2022/January2023 for overstaying in a BP Garage. The BP garage in question has public land upon entry, which is used to access local woodland where I walk my dog several times daily, but the garage forecourt is then monitored by Euro Car Parks. When especially busy, I must have driven over the boundary of private land and been picked up by ANPR, then reversed to park in public land. I did not realise I was triggering the "entry" camera and of course only found out that this was the case after I'd done it 5 times in a short period when all of the letters started coming through.

I have ignored all correspondence from ECP and any associated debt collectors. I also could not locate any landowners for the garage so have contacted nobody in relation to these PCNs.

Where I'm at:
I have received many debt collection letters but today received a "Letter of Claim" from DCB Legal.

I have read the Newbies thread and plan on sending an email to DCB legal using the template ending with the two questions "I have two questions, and under the PAP I am entitled to specific answers:
1. Am I to understand that the additional £70 represents what you lot dress up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this nett or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?
2. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?"

What I'm confused about:
Each PCN amount owed is now £170. Is the "additional £70" referred to in the questions above additional charges added, and the PCN itself is only £100? I want to be sure of what I'm asking them.

I have monitored this forum since receiving the debt collection letters and thought that the first step after receiving Letter of Claim was to submit a Subject Access Request to Euro Car Parks but this instruction is no longer present in the Newbies thread. Should I still submit a Subject Access Request and if so, is there a template?


Many thanks for any support.

KeithP

Hello and welcome.

Yes, the NEWBIES thread is updated as new information/ideas/tactics become known.

To answer your two questions...

Eritodog said:

What I'm confused about:
Each PCN amount owed is now £170. Is the "additional £70" referred to in the questions above additional charges added, and the PCN itself is only £100? I want to be sure of what I'm asking them.

The PCN is only £100. the rest is additional charges.

Eritodog said:

I have monitored this forum since receiving the debt collection letters and thought that the first step after receiving Letter of Claim was to submit a Subject Access Request to Euro Car Parks but this instruction is no longer present in the Newbies thread. Should I still submit a Subject Access Request and if so, is there a template?

Current thinking is not to send a SAR until after a Defence has been filed.
The reasoning being that if the Particulars of Claim are poor, you really don't want to give them an opportunity to improve their position.

Eritodog

KeithP said:

Hello and welcome.

Yes, the NEWBIES thread is updated as new information/ideas/tactics become known.

Thank you for the welcome & for the informative and prompt response, KeithP. I have now sent the e-mail to DCB Legal and will await their response. I used the template but added a paragraph above the two final questions stating why I am disputing the charges. 

Thank you!

Coupon-mad

The VAT question is specifically about VAT on the added fee (fees are not exempt from VAT).

Then (in August) you report DCB to HMRC online, once they reply with their balderdash pretending VAT doesn't apply.

Please don't show us their reply in August (spare us for when you need us): search the forum for a phrase from the template reply about VAT and then copy what others did.

Eritodog

Back again - I have now received my Claim Form from DCB Legal on behalf of Euro Car Parks. I'm looking for some experience and wisdom to assist me in wording my defence. I have 5 separate PCNs grouped into one case for unknowingly triggering the entry camera to a BP forecourt, in order to reverse park back onto public land to park, to access local woods.(Map view below where I'd have crossed onto the darker tarmac which is where the sign is, and I assume where the camera picked up my 'entry', then I would have reversed to park nearer the tree/shadow on the corner).



I'm just struggling with how to word this in my defence, I want to describe the situation but I'm aware that I shouldn't ramble. I have tried to keep it brief and have written this in in the defence paragraph of the Defence template, any amendment advice would be much appreciated:

3. [EXPLAIN IN YOUR OWN WORDS...NB: defences are written in the THIRD person as 'the Defendant', not 'I did this' nor 'my/me']. 

The Defendant parked in the entrance to MFG BP Binley Woods which is public land and may have unknowingly set off the entry ANPR camera of the Station forecourt, to gain a better position to reverse park onto the public land. This land us regularly used by the public for parking, to access the woodland. The Defendant did not park or leave their vehicle on the private land which is monitored by the Claimant. Therefore the Defendant was not parked for Longer than the Maximum Period Allowed as per the Particulars of Claim

For context, the Particulars of Claim:
1. The Defendant (D) is indebted to the Claimant (C) for a Parking Charge(s) issued to vehicle XXXXXXX at XXXXXXX
2. The PCN(s) were issued on 04/12/2022, 19/12/2022, 22/12/2022, 26/12/2022, 01/01/2023.
3. The defendant is pursued as the driver of the vehicle for breach of the terms on the signs (the contract). Reason:Your Vehicle Was Parked Longer Than The Maximum Period Allowed
4. In the alternative the defendant is pursued as the keeper pursuant to POFA 2012, Schedule 4.
AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS
1. £850 being the total of the PCN(s) and damages.
2. Interest at a rate of 8% per annum pursuant to s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 from the date hereof at a daily rate of £. 19 until judgement or sooner payment
3. Costs and court fees


Thanks in advance for any support

KeithP

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

Car1980

I'd be more definitive. Forget "it may have". Explain what definitively happened. Nothing wrong with some measured emotion either - the camera is ridiculously, and potentially unlawfully sited, which is why it captured you 8 times and I'd be apoplectic.

Eritodog

KeithP said:

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

The issue date is 16/09/2024

KeithP

Eritodog said:

KeithP said:

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

The issue date is 16/09/2024

With a Claim Issue Date of 16th September, you have until Monday 7th October to file an Acknowledgment of Service.  Do not file an Acknowledgment of Service before 21st September, but otherwise there is nothing to be gained by delaying it.

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.
Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 21st October 2024 to file a Defence.

That's over four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service guidance.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Eritodog

KeithP said:

Eritodog said:

KeithP said:

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

The issue date is 16/09/2024

With a Claim Issue Date of 16th September, you have until Monday 7th October to file an Acknowledgment of Service.  Do not file an Acknowledgment of Service before 21st September, but otherwise there is nothing to be gained by delaying it.

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.
Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 21st October 2024 to file a Defence.

That's over four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service guidance.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Darn, I have already submitted the Acknowledgement of Service as per the drop box file today. What does this mean?

KeithP

Eritodog said:

KeithP said:

Eritodog said:

KeithP said:

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

The issue date is 16/09/2024

With a Claim Issue Date of 16th September, you have until Monday 7th October to file an Acknowledgment of Service.  Do not file an Acknowledgment of Service before 21st September, but otherwise there is nothing to be gained by delaying it.

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.
Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 21st October 2024 to file a Defence.

That's over four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service guidance.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Darn, I have already submitted the Acknowledgement of Service as per the drop box file today. What does this mean?

Not the end of the world.

It just means that your Defence filing deadline is a little earlier, at 4pm on Friday 18th October.