Post-fire dispute with landlord - vacating property

Titus_Wadd

Is the toilet flushing an actual clause in the actual lease or just something the land lord has told you since you said you would be moving out?  He's already ahead in having the rent paid upfront.

Insist the agent carries out a check out visit when you leave and take lots of photos of the state of the flat as you leave it.

I feel sorry that you have already had such a stressful series of events but I'd hope the insurance company will step up to support you with this.  I can't offer cast-iron advice but I feel for you, and hope your new life abroad works to help you feel secure and settled.

artyboy

aladdin2024 said:

The letting agent and landlord have both refused to accept handover of keys. We don't have an address for the landlord to post them to in any case.

The most onerous of those AST terms are keeping the flat looked after, ventilated and heated appropriately, which we obviously cannot do when it remains to be hot (now) or turns cold over winter.  Putting the landlord on notice that we'll be vacating should mean he does it if he wants to protect his asset, but the concern is that he won't, let the flat fall into disrepair, and then file a legal claim for damages against us at the end of the tenancy.

It is a requirement that you have a service address for the LL, even if that is care of the agent. If that hasn't been provided then I believe that rent can be withheld, but I'll defer to the experts here...

HampshireH

artyboy said:

aladdin2024 said:

The letting agent and landlord have both refused to accept handover of keys. We don't have an address for the landlord to post them to in any case.

The most onerous of those AST terms are keeping the flat looked after, ventilated and heated appropriately, which we obviously cannot do when it remains to be hot (now) or turns cold over winter.  Putting the landlord on notice that we'll be vacating should mean he does it if he wants to protect his asset, but the concern is that he won't, let the flat fall into disrepair, and then file a legal claim for damages against us at the end of the tenancy.

It is a requirement that you have a service address for the LL, even if that is care of the agent. If that hasn't been provided then I believe that rent can be withheld, but I'll defer to the experts here...

Rent is Irrelevant as it was paid upfront so there is no rent to withhold.

Tenancy should have an address on though. Alternatively buy the deeds which should have their address on or give them to your insurance company to surrender.

OP just being nosey so please don't feel you have to answer. Presumably insurers paid for a year whilst they sort put the property. If you don't intend to return have they grumbled about paying for accommodation you don't require? Assuming they paid thinking you would return home?

RHemmings

artyboy said:

aladdin2024 said:

The letting agent and landlord have both refused to accept handover of keys. We don't have an address for the landlord to post them to in any case.

The most onerous of those AST terms are keeping the flat looked after, ventilated and heated appropriately, which we obviously cannot do when it remains to be hot (now) or turns cold over winter.  Putting the landlord on notice that we'll be vacating should mean he does it if he wants to protect his asset, but the concern is that he won't, let the flat fall into disrepair, and then file a legal claim for damages against us at the end of the tenancy.

It is a requirement that you have a service address for the LL, even if that is care of the agent. If that hasn't been provided then I believe that rent can be withheld, but I'll defer to the experts here...

It should be in the OP's tenancy agreement. At least a legal contact address of the landlord, which may be c/o the EA. In any case, that's a legal address for the tenant to use. 

There are at least two laws that you can quote when asking the EA for the address of your landlord. See here: https://thetenantsvoice.co.uk/advice_from_us/know-who-the-landlord-is/

What does your tenancy agreement say? Is there are clear name and address there. 

It seems that the OP is in contact with the landlord in any case. 

More info about withholding rent if the landlord's address is not provided within 21 days here: https://www.duttongregory.co.uk/site/blog/duttongregorynews/the-importance-of-a-landlords-address However that may not be useful for the OP as the full year's rent was paid ahead of time. 

I'm not trying to claim or imply I'm an expert by posting this. 

HampshireH said:

Tenancy should have an address on though. Alternatively buy the deeds which should have their address on or give them to your insurance company to surrender.

When I bought the deeds for a house I was renting, I found that the address of the landlord(s) was the house I was renting. Where they definitely weren't living. 

aladdin2024

Thanks again all for your words of wisdom. Please see responses to your queries.

- Fighting insurers after the fire was another huge headache. They were less than helpful, but eventually managed to get builders and surveyors involved to start works. Insurers knew that the works to our house would be completed by August. They wanted a 6 month tenancy for us (just like us) but could not find any suitable properties in the area that were for 6 months or had a break clause. So they were happy to pay the full 12 months on the basis that we accepted a smaller/cheaper property (hence being in a tiny flat which is above a pizza restaurant), and agreed to pay 6 months' worth of bills/council tax etc. on the basis that we would vacate during August at the very latest. Insurers are fully aware of that.  What they are clearly not aware of is how to deal with the letting agent / landlord if they do not relet the property (as that is what the Insurer assumed they would do).
- The house rebuild has just completed. We will be selling the house as soon as we can. Mainly because of the move abroad, but also because of the trauma involved with the house post-fire.
- AST started in March. I met with landlord in May to explain that we would likely be vacating in July/August as we would be moving abroad. We visited the flat. He agreed we had kept it in amazing condition (agreed to forgo any professional clean that he required under the AST). But he said he would need to think about what he would be happy to agree because he wasn't sure he wanted the hassle of finding new tenants. He said the agents had conned him as they had told him that we were looking for a 2 year rental, never mentioned anything about leaving after 6 months! It was all very cordial when we meet. But we have since exchanged numerous emails and messages where he says he has obtained legal advice, refuses to let us surrender the tenancy, and demands we occupy the property, keep paying the bills, and observe all other clauses in the lease.  Yes there is a clause to say that all drains pipes and loo must be used/flushed every 7 days.
- I have found an address for landlord in the AST. However, I know for a fact that the Landlord lives locally in/around Surrey. However, the address in the AST is for a company registered in Kent.  Do you think I can return the keys (tracked/recorded delivery) to that company address? I'm worried he will argue we weren't allowed to do that. Instead, I was planning to pop the keys under the door of the letting agent. I'm not sure which is the safer route.
- I have revisited the AST which provides the below clauses re utilities/bills. There are no other clauses about them. If my reading of this correct, I have no obligation to keep the utilities in my name and/or to pay council tax or utilities for the period I am not occupying the flat, so I can also cancel those - do you agree?

The tenant agrees with the Landlord:

"Immediately on the signing of this Agreement the Tenant(s) agree to arrange for:-

(a) ELECTRICITY, GAS, WATER, INTERNET AND TELEPHONE SERVICES (as available to the property) to be transferred into the Tenants name and to pay all accounts rendered in respect of the property, where appropriate, a proper proportion to be assessed by the Landlords Agents

(b) Immediately before the termination of this agreement and the Tenants departure from the premises to have the ELECTRICITY, GAS, WATER AND ALL TELEPHONE METERS read and to settle all outstanding accounts with such services on vacation of the property.

(c) To pay promptly to the authorities to whom they are due, COUNCIL TAX, and outgoings (included in part 3.2a), including any which are imposed after the date of this Agreement (even if of a novel nature) and to pay the total cost of any re-connection fee relating to the supply of, ELECTRICITY, GAS, WATER, INTERNET AND TELEPHONE, if the same is disconnected"

Mr.Generous

The landlord will at some point come to his senses and re let the property

HampshireH

An alternative option. You could fit a keysafe on the wall in the back garden so it's less visible. Put the keys in it and give the landlord the code

silvercar

I have found an address for landlord in the AST. However, I know for a fact that the Landlord lives locally in/around Surrey. However, the address in the AST is for a company registered in Kent. 

Probably the landlord owns the property through a company and/or that address is the registered address of the landlord’s representative. Could be the accountants or solicitors. Quite common to avoid personal addresses going on Companies House due to misuse of personal information for fraud and other nefarious behaviour.  Check your tenancy agreement for the official address of the landlord and use that.

aladdin2024

Thanks. The AST says we have to return the keys to Landlord or letting agent. So we were going to deposit the keys with letting agent after hours through their letterbox (the shop has one) as if we try to do so during office hours, they might refuse to take possession of it (as they told us they wouldn't accept them back).  I think that's better than mailing the keys back to a company address in Kent, right?

RHemmings

aladdin2024 said:

Thanks. The AST says we have to return the keys to Landlord or letting agent. So we were going to deposit the keys with letting agent after hours through their letterbox (the shop has one) as if we try to do so during office hours, they might refuse to take possession of it (as they told us they wouldn't accept them back).  I think that's better than mailing the keys back to a company address in Kent, right?

If I were you, I would want to mail the keys back recorded delivery so that you have a paper trail. 

Whether or not it's the address in Kent, or the EA. I would tend towards the address in Kent if that is the address on your AST. You could also send a letter recorded to the EA saying that you have sent the keys and where they were sent to.