Enforcement process commenced

JohnBravo

An update. One of the councilors has picked it up pretty quickly and passed it onto the council's revenue department to respond to me.
They came back to me and indeed I missed one payment end of March 2024.
The council claims that since then they sent like 4 letters across April, May, June, July but I haven't received any of them but the one from the enforcement agency which uses a different mailing service/facility.
I was at the address since end of March full time and pick letters daily.

How come I could be aware of that including the court summons end of May 2024 but continued to pay monthly until now. These council tax payments are manual by a credit card so not that I set it up and forgot about it.

It's a mystery to me why the councils send important letters just as 1st class not Signed For like it is in other countries and this supposed to count as delivered/signed for.

Bookworm105

JohnBravo said:

It's a mystery to me why the councils send important letters just as 1st class not Signed For like it is in other countries and this supposed to count as delivered/signed for.

Interpretation Act 1978 s7 Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

Therefore "ordinary course of post" in respect of a signed for item means it can be refused ie not signed for. Therefore has not been delivered! Hence you are told never to use signed for on important letters as people may be expecting pain in the post and thus refuse it. 

unsigned for post cannot be refused, and therefore, as established long ago, first class is automatically deemed to have been "served" 2 days after posting (hence the wise person always gets a free certificate of posting to show when the clock started)

In respect of a council, a court will accept that they sent it on the strength of them having a record of the address they posted it to. They don't need certificates from the post office and they don't need evidence that it is the address at which you may now be living. keeping the council updated of your address is your responsibility

JohnBravo

Bookworm105 said:

JohnBravo said:

It's a mystery to me why the councils send important letters just as 1st class not Signed For like it is in other countries and this supposed to count as delivered/signed for.

Interpretation Act 1978 s7 Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

Therefore "ordinary course of post" in respect of a signed for item means it can be refused ie not signed for. Therefore has not been delivered! Hence you are told never to use signed for on important letters as people may be expecting pain in the post and thus refuse it. 

unsigned for post cannot be refused, and therefore, as established long ago, first class is automatically deemed to have been "served" 2 days after posting (hence the wise person always gets a free certificate of posting to show when the clock started)

In respect of a council, a court will accept that they sent it on the strength of them having a record of the address they posted it to. They don't need certificates from the post office and they don't need evidence that it is the address at which you may now be living. keeping the council updated of your address is your responsibility

Keeping my address up to date at the council? I am at the same and only address!

But this is ridiculous anyway. What a refusal of a letter has to do with a delivery? A postman just puts a note that it was refused. It is XXI century not XIX century.
Any technical issue or a deliberate action (corruption, mail suppression) can be hidden behind this stupid legislation and randomly abused by the authorities especially in the times like now when everyone is short of money.

No one is willing to investigate, improve this because it generates more money. This can go for decades and eventually blow up like in the case of Post Office "system".

How something that was lost in the post be considered served / delivered? 4 letters in a row lost in the post? Interesting.

I don't understand how you cannot see a problem with that. In other countries they send important letters as signed for especially invitations to court summons.

I have to provide a proof of posting but the authorities do not.

The assumption that the systems used by the councils do not experience technical problems is one thing.
The assumption that the councils do not exhibit corruption is another thing.
In the case of Horizon IT scandal it was a combination of both.

Thanks anyway.

Bookworm105

JohnBravo said:

I don't understand how you cannot see a problem with that. In other countries they send important letters as signed for especially invitations to court summons.

I have to provide a proof of posting but the authorities do not.

you asked why. I gave you the facts of why
I understand how it works, you did not ask for an opinion as to whether that is a good or bad way of doing things. 
If you re-read what I wrote, you do not have to provide a proof of posting, but it is wiser to have one in case it is helpful. Perhaps that subtly passed over you in your anger at your predicament?

If want an opinion from me: it is your own fault. 
Pay by direct debit and you will never miss a payment, it really is that simple.

JohnBravo

Bookworm105 said:

JohnBravo said:

I don't understand how you cannot see a problem with that. In other countries they send important letters as signed for especially invitations to court summons.

I have to provide a proof of posting but the authorities do not.

you asked why. I gave you the facts of why
I understand how it works, you did not ask for an opinion as to whether that is a good or bad way of doing things. 
If you re-read what I wrote, you do not have to provide a proof of posting, but it is wiser to have one in case it is helpful. Perhaps that subtly passed over you in your anger at your predicament?

If want an opinion from me: it is your own fault. 
Pay by direct debit and you will never miss a payment, it really is that simple.

Me missing a payment has nothing to do with the issue of them not being able to notify me but do it all under the table.
Are you saying the negligence (or mob practices) are ok as long as it's "a local authority"?
I am not their peasant.
The card payment is one of the available options so I use it. I pay this way since I am with this council, I don't remember them stressing the importance of a direct debit. If their system(s) are unreliable and they cannot communicate effectively with the tenants then direct debit should be the only option.

I don't see the utility companies having problems communicating with me by letters or electronically and they have a lot more customers than the council.
I pay it but I won't take the blame.The bullies always want that.

LightFlare

JohnBravo said:

Bookworm105 said:

JohnBravo said:

I don't understand how you cannot see a problem with that. In other countries they send important letters as signed for especially invitations to court summons.

I have to provide a proof of posting but the authorities do not.

you asked why. I gave you the facts of why
I understand how it works, you did not ask for an opinion as to whether that is a good or bad way of doing things. 
If you re-read what I wrote, you do not have to provide a proof of posting, but it is wiser to have one in case it is helpful. Perhaps that subtly passed over you in your anger at your predicament?

If want an opinion from me: it is your own fault. 
Pay by direct debit and you will never miss a payment, it really is that simple.

Me missing a payment has nothing to do with the issue of them not being able to notify me but do it all under the table.
Are you saying the negligence (or mob practices) are ok as long as it's "a local authority"?
I am not their peasant.
The card payment is one of the available options so I use it. I pay this way since I am with this council, I don't remember them stressing the importance of a direct debit. If their system(s) are unreliable and they cannot communicate effectively with the tenants then direct debit should be the only option.

I don't see the utility companies having problems communicating with me by letters or electronically and they have a lot more customers than the council.
I pay it but I won't take the blame.The bullies always want that.

It kind of does if you consider that had you not missed a payment then they wouldnt have needed to notify you.

If you pay "manually" then you must have known you missed one

Its all a bit moot really - the system as it is, is what we/you have to deal with, they wont change just based on a few failings or opinions to the contrary when it works for a large majority

BikingBud

What did your bill say for the year 2023-2024?

Where total costs, split by area, periodic cost, (10 or 12 payments) and date required for payment all clearly listed and identifiable?

Did you track your payments against this?

Why did you give them an email address if you didn't want to operate via the simple to use portal? If you want to work electronically do so. It appears you have this confused mid-ground, just to suit you.

Why should other council tax payers see their funds wasted on delivering a system to meet you and that includes using recorded delivery letters?

Our council changed the system late in last year's cycle, this also allocated a new customer reference number but as most pay 10 instalments this gave space for the new system to be installed and everything to be in place for 2024-2025 payment cycle.

The assumption that the systems used by the councils do not experience technical problems is one thing.

The assumption that the councils do not exhibit corruption is another thing.

Me missing a payment has nothing to do with the issue of them not being able to notify me but do it all under the table.

Quite a collection of very strong claims given that you appear to have failed to pay the correct number of instalments!

I, and I suspect many others on here, would be absolutely aware that a CT payment had not been paid by knowing what my cashflow is during the month.

You chose the  method of payment, you agree you failed to meet that payment plan.

JohnBravo

It has nothing to do with what suits me.

As I said the utility companies have a lot more customers and they have no issues communicating their demands. They exist in the same ecosystem and do not bully customers with Liability Orders or at least not so soon.

There are a lot more people in this country who are busier than me and have to try harder to make their ends meet. I don't think I am an isolated case, most people just give in under the pressure of bullies, pay and forget about the whole thing.

Unfortunately I don't have a spreadsheet to tell me my monthly cash flow and show in red that I have more money than I should in a given month.

I won't take the blame for the council being inept.
Apparently in the second half of April 2024 they sent a letter with a special arrangement payment plan so which payment plan have I failed to meet?

The safest way is to pay the tribute in full and don't give a damn about them, their payment plans, portals/apps at least for another year.

It's the XXI century and there should be no excuse for systemic lying.
If I missed my payment and they didn't notify me about a missed payment because like you said the council assumed the bill was communicated earlier (annual CT bill) then I would agree with you.
But they claim they have sent several letters but it didn't happen!

Apologies I sound like an !!!!!! but I just cannot get to terms with it even under the threat of seeing the nice men in anti-stab vests.
The council communicates, I ignore them then fine they got me but if someone pulled a plug on the printer or didn't put enough paper in it I cannot take a blame for that.

sheramber

The council say they sent you letters.

You say you didn't receive any.  

He says/she says

Nobody here can change the system, whether they agrre wioth or not.

If you think it should be changed then contact your local councillor and suggest it to him/her.

eskbanker

JohnBravo said:

Apologies I sound like an !!!!!!

It doesn't seem likely that there'll be a huge queue of posters waiting to disagree with that!

However, while it's your prerogative to vent endlessly about communication processes, are you making any progress on the important issue of settling your outstanding bill and getting the council to call off the debt collectors?

JohnBravo said:

It's the XXI century

So just a mere couple of millennia since that style of numbering was prevalent?