LBC - Gladstones

POIUYT90

Hi everyone

We have now received the Letter Before Claim from Gladstones. Amount due £170. 

I have located the helpful template suggested email which I will send to solicitors requesting it to be put on hold.
- Noted that we should locate the email address and not use the Reply Form. I'm trying to locate the right email address.
However, once we have sent this email, do we just wait for them to take the next steps or do we have to provide something further in respect of the LBC?

I also wanted a bit of advice on how much detail I should put in (regarding the facts, why we are disputing the debt). 

Background to our case:

PCN from National Parking Management Ltd - NPMPay

Site – restaurant car park

 We did enter the car park – two vehicles, mine and my husband’s. Husband exited his vehicle to try and pay but was unable to do so. He walked off site to see if we could park elsewhere. I remained in my vehicle. We were both out of the car park 4 mins after arriving, and parked on a nearby road. He received a PCN but I did not.

Challenged the PCN on the following grounds:

 1. Could not remain in the car park because there was no option to pay. Unable to download the APP to make payment and no alternative payment methods for payment were available. Users should not be penalised for the parking operator's lack of investment in common forms of payment i.e. cash and card. Unable to pay via the APP because a) this could not be downloaded on android phone (provided screenshot from playstore showing app won’t work on my device) and if unable to download the app, nor pay by card or cash, how is the operator expecting us to pay.

2. Left the car park within 4 minutes of arrival. Children remained in the car whilst husband left vehicle to search for parking where payment could be made.

3. Husband only left the car park site by foot for a minute to see if there was any other way to pay or any other place to park. This was a new area  to us as we were visiting from another town and therefore we had to look for different options.

4. Upon leaving the car park, went to street parking and paid for parking by card, uploaded a picture of my parking ticket for street parking (right beside the car park). The ticket  for street parking shows the date and time and location -  this is a few minutes after we left this car park.

Appeal to NPM was rejected – “At the time the vehicle was issued a PCN there was no valid parking session in place for this location. We can see from the images you have stopped to read the NPM signage and walked off site without payment. Parking sessions must be purchased within 15 minutes of arrival before leaving the car park”.

Appealed to IAS but with no luck – and we know why now having read through the NEWBIE thread.

Letters received from GCTT/ZZPS requesting payment and providing Notice of Transfer to Solicitors – all have been ignored.

We then emails from QDR solicitors informing us that “an important and confidential letter awaits you. Please click here and complete the security questions to view it”. These were also ignored.

Now we have the LBC. Dated 19 July but only received in letterbox today. Deadline to reply is 18 Aug. 

We are also going to approach the restaurant asking them to cancel the PCN. Is there any advice on how to approach this? 

Thanks in advance for any guidance. 

LDast

The response to the LoC is all that is needed at this stage and is templates in the second post in the Newbies/FAQ thread. There is no need to request the 30 day “debt advice” hold unless you wish to prolong the process for any particular reason. That paragraph is optional.

There won’t be enough detail in the LoC for you to add any “facts”. You are simply denying that you owe a debt to anyone.

The rest is simply putting the solicitor/claimant on notice that they are not dealing with low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree and are obviously getting valid advice from this forum. In other words, you are not a pushover and you are going to robustly defend any claim. Also, the question about VAT is another arrow in your quiver that will get the solicitors/claimants response on record that they are defrauding HMRC and allow you to report them for suspected VAT fraud, which takes all of 5 minutes or less online here: 

https://www.gov.uk/report-tax-fraud#:~:text=Fill%20in%20the%20online%20form,to%20give%20your%20personal%20details.

You then simply wait for their response, report them and wait to see if they actually file claim. You can guarantee that if/when they do, they will breach CPR 16.4(1)(a) which will open them up to a strike out of the claim.

Coupon-mad

Allegedly... it's a 'VAT concern' not a certainty.

POIUYT90

Thank you @LDast and @Coupon-mad.

I have located these Gladstone emails, which I will send the response to:
enquiries@gladstonessolicitors.co.uk
litigation@gladstonessolicitors.co.uk 

In respect of the facts of our case, do you think our position is strong enough to defend any claim if it gets to that? My understanding from the threads is that it is worth defending in any case and then we can pay the fee if we lose, without the risk of a CCJ. 

Much appreciated. 

Trainerman

Is this case not a perfect example of how the whole thing is a scam and a con ?

O.P. Follow the advice given. I reckon you will have them on the ropes.

Coupon-mad

It is a no-brainer to defend ANY parking case, regardless of facts or merit (on either side).

POIUYT90

Hi everyone.

Sharing below the response we received from Gladstones (2 months after we replied to the LBC).

Wondering if this is a standard reply others have also received and if we should just ignore and now wait until any claim is issued? 

Good Morning,

Thank you for your email and apologies for the delay in responding. 

1. The Amount Due/ Debt includes £70.00 claimed by our Client for the time/resources spent facilitating the recovery of the unpaid parking charge notice(s) pursuant to its ATA’s Code of Practice and the Terms and Conditions of the Contract, which was entered into upon the driver of the vehicle entering the Relevant Land. The amount is a pre-determined and nominal contribution to our Client’s losses as a direct result of your non-payment. VAT is not applicable as the parking charge notice which was issued to you is a contractual charge.  

2. Motorists can park on the site in accordance with the terms and conditions on the sign, without incurring a charge but to park without incurring a charge they may need to display a permit; purchase a pay and stay ticket; become an authorised user, it is whatever the sign states. If a motorists wishes to park ‘as they please’ within reason, they can do so but pay a charge for this ‘privilege’, the charge is set out on the signs and by a motorist parking otherwise than in accordance with the signs they accept the charge at the point of parking and a valid contract is formed. The charge is due within 28 days of being incurred, if the charge remains unpaid after this date the contract the motorist entered into is breached and a debt is owed to our Client, they are then entitled to damages that have occurred as a result of the breach.

Our Client remains satisfied this charge was issued correctly and we invite you to make payment of the outstanding balance, in full, within 14 days of this email.

 

Payment can be made via bank transfer to the account detailed as follows: 

Gladstones Solicitors Ltd 

Barclays Bank 

Account Number: 33028712 

Sort Code: 20-24-09 

Reference: 104383.13663

Amount Due: £170.00

Alternatively, you can make payment online at...or via the automated payment line on 0333 0230 049 quoting your reference. 

You must include your reference when making payment. If you fail to do so, we may be unable to allocate your payment. This may result in further costs being incurred, for which you will be liable. 

Should full payment not be forthcoming within the time frame specified, we are instructed to issue legal proceedings to recover the outstanding balance in full. Should it become necessary to issue legal proceedings, we suggest you follow the steps on the Claim Form upon receipt of the same.

Kind Regards, 

 

Olivia

Legal Assistant 

Gr1pr

Similar to DCB legal replies etc 

Now report them to the Inland revenue due to possible VAT fraud on the extra  £70 charge 

Coupon-mad

Search the forum for HMRC VAT concerns

KeithP

VAT is not applicable as the parking charge notice which was issued to you is a contractual charge.

This needs further exploration, but probably not on this thread.
A 'contractual charge' is it?
So if I agree a contract with Bathrooms R Us to fit a replacement bathroom suite, does that mean I shouldn't be charged VAT?
A hypothetical question of course... I know the answer.

POIUYT90

Coupon-mad said:

Search the forum for HMRC VAT concerns

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I have submitted the report.