Boiler Replacement

blackbirdxx

Hi,
I live in Eastbourne and have a gravity heating system, the boiler has failed and been capped off by the gas board.
I received the following quotes from a local company to just replace the boiler and another to change to a combi.
I would be very grateful if somebody can advise me if these quotes are reasonable? The combi option appears quite pricy and is the one I really wanted.
Many thanks in anticipation.....

Boiler replacement
£2,300.00
To replace current heat only boiler with alpha etec 15R heat only boiler. System to stay the same
To add magnetic filter onto system
To add inhibitor to heating system
To supply boiler and all materials
Boiler to come with 7 years warranty
Duration work 1-2 days

Combi boiler
£4,200.00
To convert from heat only system to a combi boiler and to supply and install alpha etec 33 plus combi boiler
To remove hot water cylinder and water tanks in loft
To install new thermostat. To add new filter
To supply all materials
Boiler to come with 10 years warranty
Duration of work 2-3 days
Power shower
£520.00
To replace mira event xs power shower like for like
To supply shower unit

Southend_2

Make sure the quotes include a proper flush of the system or you'll end up with a brand new boiler full of crud. Quotes seem in  the ballpark. Have you asked one or two other firms to quote?

blackbirdxx

Would you go go combi and replace the shower and all the other aging gubbins up in the loft or stick with the gravity system? 
Personally, I thought almost £5K for a combi and shower fitted seemed a bit on the high side?

FreeBear

Both the Alpha boilers are at the budget end of the market - Not necessarily a bad thing, and looking at the specs, a bit better than some of the other offering at that price point.

The Alpha E-Tec 15R will modulate down to 4.3kW (not too bad), and hit 28kW when heating a tank of water. So you'll get pretty fast re-heat times if the hot water cylinder is matched properly.

Alpha E-Tec Plus 33 will modulate down to 4.9kW, so not quite as good. Will deliver water at 14.1l/min with a 35°C rise, or 16.5l/min @ 30°C rise - You need to measure the flow rate out of the bath tap. Stick a 5l tub under the tap and time how long it takes to fill on full blast.

Be mindful that there is a push to get rid of gas boilers to cut CO2 emissions. Also, gas will only one way in price as supplies run out and government "green" levies are added. It would be well worth looking at a heat pump. Octopus are doing some pretty competitive quotes at the moment, and some are coming in cheaper than a gas boiler. When they quoted me earlier in the year, the price difference was minimal (£200 or so). https://octopus.energy/get-a-heat-pump/

propertyrental

Combis are great for smaller households where hot water is not often called for from several places at once.

But personally I like the security of a hot water cylinder with emersion heater as back up 'just in case'.....

But I'm old school and have always had these so may be biased!

What I read about heat pumps is it's not the hp itself that's expensive, it's the potential new pipework, enlarged rads, and improved insulation that's often needed to make them effective.

ThisIsWeird

blackbirdxx said:

Hi,
I live in Eastbourne and have a gravity heating system, the boiler has failed and been capped off by the gas board.
I received the following quotes from a local company to just replace the boiler and another to change to a combi.
I would be very grateful if somebody can advise me if these quotes are reasonable? The combi option appears quite pricy and is the one I really wanted.
Many thanks in anticipation.....

Boiler replacement
£2,300.00
To replace current heat only boiler with alpha etec 15R heat only boiler. System to stay the same
To add magnetic filter onto system
To add inhibitor to heating system
To supply boiler and all materials
Boiler to come with 7 years warranty
Duration work 1-2 days

Combi boiler
£4,200.00
To convert from heat only system to a combi boiler and to supply and install alpha etec 33 plus combi boiler
To remove hot water cylinder and water tanks in loft
To install new thermostat. To add new filter
To supply all materials
Boiler to come with 10 years warranty
Duration of work 2-3 days
Power shower
£520.00
To replace mira event xs power shower like for like
To supply shower unit

Hi Blackbird.
Lots of important advice given above.
The choice of going combi is yours - there are pros and cons.
Provided your main water flow is good, then the main 'pro' is the limitless hot water supply on demand, delivered at a reliable flow and pressure.
The main 'con' is probably the loss of stored water which can be useful in certain circumstances - a water cut, or boiler failure.
Then you can add other aspects like the freeing up of a cupboard, and, er, things like that.
I have a combi and find it great. I love the powerful shower, and not having to plan heating the water first. I like the roomy airing cupboard. I don't like its relative unreliability, tho', but this has largely been due to remaining sludge in my old pipework - an issue that you will also need to mitigate against.

First things first - do you know what your cold mains flow rate is? Did your plumber check this and tell you? If not, then please try placing a pan under either your garden tap or kitchen cold, turn it on full, and time it for 10 seconds. Measure the number of litres, and times x 6 to get 'litres per minute'. Let us know the result.
And the other thing is, for a change to a combi in particular, you really must have a thorough 'flush' of your pipes and radiators. I see no mention of this in your quotes.

The quotes - yes, in the ballpark, but possibly on the slightly high side? You should always get three quotes :-) Try and get personal recommendations. Or, some folk here suggest Boxt and others?

Finally, that replacement shower. I don't understand why Screwfix have three versions, one at £300, 400, and 500.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/mira-event-xs-rear-fed-white-power-shower/3744R?
I can't see the difference on my phone! But, the cost will be 90% actual shower cost, as swapping it should be a doddle.
NB: you won't need one of these if you go 'combi' - you'll need a thermostatic mixer shower instead, and that will involve greater changes to your shower unit/bathroom. So, make sure you include this in your overall 'combi' quote - it could be more than you think!

Soooo, water flow rate, please?
And, does your existing system actually work ok - are you happy with what comes out your taps?

Imo, unless you have a good personal reason to go combi, then best stick with what you have. If your DHW cylinder is old, then stick another jacket on it, or consider replacing it. If your DHW water use is low, you could even reduce its size to suit. And, even if it costs a bit more to keep a hot cylinder heated, you will have saved around £2k to begin with - that'll cover many years of difference! And it'll most likely be more reliable.

Albermarle

 If your DHW cylinder is old, then stick another jacket on it, or consider replacing it. 

I think hot water cylinders have a limited life, and old ones can be prone to leaking and being inefficient.
So if the OP sticks with the current system it probably would be worth considering a new hot water tank, if say the current one is 20 years old, or older. A new one will be much better insulated as well, and if fitted during the rest of the work should not cost too much in time/labour.
The tank itself will cost between £250 and £500.

FreeBear

propertyrental said: What I read about heat pumps is it's not the hp itself that's expensive, it's the potential new pipework, enlarged rads, and improved insulation that's often needed to make them effective.

That is the advantage of going to Octopus to get a quote - Their price includes replacement radiators and (some) plumbing subject to survey. If the heat pump is appropriately sized for the type of property, extra insulation isn't necessarily required - There was a condition of the Boiler Upgrade Scheme that EPC recommended thermal upgrades needed to be done. But that was dropped earlier in the year.

Regardless of heating source, more insulation will cut heating losses and save money. Bigger radiators (with a condensing boiler) means you can run at lower flow temperatures. This in turn means better efficiency and lower running costs - But you also need a boiler that can modulate down to a low level to avoid short cycling.

ThisIsWeird

Albermarle said:

 If your DHW cylinder is old, then stick another jacket on it, or consider replacing it. 

I think hot water cylinders have a limited life, and old ones can be prone to leaking and being inefficient.
So if the OP sticks with the current system it probably would be worth considering a new hot water tank, if say the current one is 20 years old, or older. A new one will be much better insulated as well, and if fitted during the rest of the work should not cost too much in time/labour.
The tank itself will cost between £250 and £500.

That makes sense, and it should still be less than a change to a combi.

A modern DHWCylinder will be better insulated and faster recovery. (How old is your existing cylinder?)

Blackbird, may I ask how many folk will usually be in your household? If only one or two, then I would personally go for a smaller DHWC as this should serve your needs, heat up very quickly ('fast recovery'), have less heat loss, be easier to keep 'safe' at 60oC, and all that stuff. Should you sell the house in the future, the new owners will have the easy option of upgrading the size if they wish.

My gut says to stick with the heat-only boiler system you have, but consider that cylcinder tweak. But only if you are actually happy with how your current system performs! Are you?

Albermarle

OP - Probably worth reading this as a summary of points already made.

What are the pros and cons of a combi boiler? | Viessmann UK

Worth noting that it says you can not have a power shower with a Combi, as it runs off mains water pressure.

Ibrahim5

So they are charging £4.2k to install a £720 boiler? At least £3k labour. Should easily be able to do that in a day. You could probably have your current boiler repaired if there was a plumber available, who isn't obsessed with fitting new boilers for the big money.