Bay Infringement Parking Fine

golfaddict_24

Hi

Firstly, thanks for all the info and advice already in this forum, it's really helpful

We had a PCN through the post earlier this week from Premier Park for not being parked wholly within a bay whilst on holiday in Charlestown, Cornwall last week. There was no physical ticket left on the car, so the PCN is effectively the NtK

I've read the Newbies thread and checked the images of sample notices and the NtK is POFA compliant

I've read elsewhere in the forum that someone successfully won a POPLA appeal at the same location based on the car park name/address in the land owner authorisation being different to the signage at the car park, so this is potentially an avenue we could pursue, if they haven't amended the agreement in the mean time

What I'm hoping for some advice on is whether we have a chance of also winning based on the merits of the situation. The markings of the "bay" in question are very minimal, but I haven't been able to find much on regulations of what actually constitutes a bay and being parked wholly within it

(Sorry, new account, so can't upload photos). The markings are a solid line across the back of the bay, which then extend by a foot or so down each side until the tarmac ends. Beyond the tarmac, the parking area turns to cobblestones, with absolutely no additional lines demarking the extent of the bay at all. The space is very long, with a wall at the front, which obviously marks the front edge. Due to the length of the space, the car was parked entirely on the cobblestones and therefore the end of the car is well inside the solid line at the back and the foot-long extensions down the side from the back corners. There is therefore no line along any length of the car to clearly show it exceeding the bay limits. That being said, if you assume the lines continue straight and visually trace them forward to the car, it would be the case that the tyres would be on the wrong side. What are our chances of successfully appealing that the bay markings were unclear and that the PPC do not actually have any evidence of a breach as there are no images that actually show the car exceeding the lines without having to assume their continued extent and visually trace them up to where the car was parked?

For additional info, the space is on the end of a row, with the area to the side where the breach is alleged to have occurred being reserved for pedestrian access to the car park toilets. The PPC therefore did not lose any revenue, as the additional space allegedly occupied by the car could not have been used by an additional car. Although, I gather that this argument is no longer applicable in helping to argue against punitive fines?

Appreciate any advice anyone might have 

oldernonethewiser

What evidence have they supplied?

Note - it isn't a fine. 

Coupon-mad

What I'm hoping for some advice on is whether we have a chance of also winning based on the merits of the situation.

Honestly: It doesn't matter:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80904327#Comment_80904327

You won't be paying anyway and PLAN A is not 'appeal' (see NEWBIES thread).

LDast

Anyone can upload photos, new or long timer. You are probably trying to provide links which are not allowed for newbies.

golfaddict_24

LDast said:

Anyone can upload photos, new or long timer. You are probably trying to provide links which are not allowed for newbies.

oldernonethewiser said:

What evidence have they supplied?

Note - it isn't a fine. 

Ah, thanks. Sorry, I was just being stupid. That would have saved some time

These are the photos:

golfaddict_24

Coupon-mad said:

What I'm hoping for some advice on is whether we have a chance of also winning based on the merits of the situation.

Honestly: It doesn't matter:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80904327#Comment_80904327

You won't be paying anyway and PLAN A is not 'appeal' (see NEWBIES thread).

Thanks - I had read the thread and knew I was jumping to Plan B. Plan A is appeal to the landowner and try and get it cancelled right - but I have no idea who the landowner is and I'm not sure how to go about finding out.

Is there a good way of trying to get hold of this? It's not linked to a retail park, hotel, hospital or anything like that as far as I can tell. It's just a generic small seaside town car park

KeithP

So you were parked here then, where that Mini was parked...

[click on the image to go to Google Street View]

The marking of those bays does seem exceedingly poor and is that Warning sign top left in that image still broken this year?

golfaddict_24

KeithP said:

So you were parked here then, where that Mini was parked...

The marking of those bays does seem exceedingly poor and is that Warning sign top left in that image still broken this year?

Yes, that's the exact spot

Sorry, not sure on the broken sign. We're not local and as there was no notice left on the car, we weren't aware until we got home and so didn't collect any evidence before we left

Coupon-mad

Google Streetview will be your evidence for POPLA and later on, if you 'lose' at this farce and need to defend a court claim.

fisherjim

Just look at the variation in size with the bay to the right!

That space isn't fit to be called a bay, and why make it so narrow when the space to the right isn't marked as anything.

In fact you could even argue that those incomplete markings mean nothing at all, and may even be the remnants of something left over from the past.

Added to which the signage is totally deficient, does any of the  meagre signage actually say you must park in a marked bay?

Just look at the entrance, you could almost be forgiven for assuming it's free!

Thank goodness the BPA have audited their office files of the signage!!!

Yet another honeytrap scam.

fisherjim

The signage actually says "Park in a marked bay only where present" well that's pretty ambiguous isn't it?